Conrad

I went through their flow to use the app on my phone. I figured (incorrectly) that since it was smart enough to remember that I was trying to view mooneyspace that was what I would end up seeing. No, it subscribed me to 5 forums, 4 of which I had never heard of. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to remove those, so after 10 minutes I just reinstalled the app.

Who said twins need to be expensive? http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_954393_1961+Piper+Aztec.html

Yep Closing work is happening now. The plane will be hangared at KOAK; there'll be pictures here once it makes the trip. You'd be welcome of course to come check it out!

What is your loan term? Kind of important if you're using loan payments as a reference for mx costs...

@gsrxpilot I'm glad you're loving N6XM because I watched that listing on controller for a long time wishing it wasn't out of my price range.

Definitely join MAPA. It might get you an insurance discount some places (??), the MAPA logs have mechanical suggestions, a classifieds section, but most importantly accident reports. While Mooneys seem to have an excellent safety record, there's nothing quite so humbling as the lessons to learn there from those of us who didn't make it. On a lighter note, the 64 C and E models had the ailerons with rounded bottoms requiring the higher control forces. Positive Control (PC) was introduced as standard in 65 and required the modern flat-bottom aileron design. If it has PC, it has modern ailerons. Other quirks of the pre-65s were that they had only 48 gallons usable fuel (unless the fuel tank caps were replaced by an O&N bladder installation), have rounded rear windows, and the step is driven by a crank at the pilot's left knee instead of by vacuum pressure. They might not have a hat rack. For the fuel, if you're leaving 10 gallons of fuel in reserve, for trips you'd have 38 gallons as opposed to 42, or a 9% difference in range. On the bright side they sell at a light discount. Kelly McMullen is a vocal participant on the MAPA email threads, and I believe he has an M20E which he has stated he might put on the market within the year. Could be worth an email? There's a nice looking E with an SWTA 201 windshield on Barnstormers as well. That mod isn't made anymore, and is preferable to the LASAR version of the 201 windshield as it has better exterior access to avionics. If you go back far enough in the Mooney classifieds there you'll find one for a rather attractive E with a low time engine but you can't have it is going to be mine.

As for the topic of expense, I also think that the advice of 'consider stretching your budget for the next model up' is objectively bad advice. You may want to stretch your budget, but you would want to stretch it to get one of the best instances of a model you can definitely afford from somebody that knows they have a beautiful plane, not a needy plane from someone who knows they need to offer a serious discount to sell. Your plane won't spend so much time in the hangar, you will have some cash to deal with upgrades (some will be necessary on almost any plane you can afford in order to be ADS-B 2020 compliant), and finally, if/when you do have the resources to upgrade you will be able to turn around and sell without taking a big loss on all the work you had to do. Not to mention you'll be able to afford to fly it!

Also, meet me. I am in pretty much the same boat as you, but I've been here a while and am getting out as of right now! I'm I'm just over in SF and have agonized over a lot of the same issues you've mentioned. I have also spoken to Mr. Pinata about his plane, and although I didn't actually get as far as going to see it it should be a great deal for the right person if it all checks out. He was forthcoming with information and helpful and responsive, and I only ceased pursuing it because I decided that I could find a bird with an equipment list better suited to my mission while not breaking the bank. Best of luck with the sale pinata, and best of luck with the puchase Shermv8tor! Feel free to PM me, I suspect I'll have lots of time to talk and speculate over the holidays.

Speed and fuel efficiency are the other side of the coin though. I don't know that I'd prefer purchasing a plane with the 201 windshield on it, but if I had avionics the way I liked them (and some money fell out of the sky) then... speed and fuel efficiency are why we're all here, no?

I think we're looking for the same thing.

Definitely post more pics!

@ Jerry - I certainly wouldn't mind @ Cody - I love to hear the vote of confidence. Unfortunately the seller has just informed me that the plane is tentatively off the market as a change of circumstance means he might not be ready to part ways with his bird. Back to barnstormers!

Hey guys, does anyone know of an A&P with Mooney experience in or near NW Arkansas? I'm looking for someone who would be willing to spot-check a PPI/annual on a '65 E, and soon. Also, does anybody have experience with John Gearhart of Twelve Stone Aviation? Basically I'm in a strange situation (I think). Twelve Stone is the regular maintainer for this plane. It is currently in their shop; they're about to start this year's annual. The seller has given me the option to take over the annual -- out of my pocketbook, which he would reimburse me for if I decided not to buy the plane. I'm comfortable with this, but it has been suggested to me that the best way to make sure that nothing is overlooked would be to hire a second mechanic to inspect the plane while it's all opened up. Does this sound reasonable? Can anyone recommend a mechanic in the area who might be willing to do it within the next week? Thanks! Conrad

I think I saw this post right about the time I joined/when you posted it, and then later I found the plane again on Barnstormers, but I never made the connection that it was the same one. I have to say the panel is perfect, I really like that setup. The other listing says that the plane is in the shop for an extensive annual at the moment. I hope you'll post back here with some more information about what came up and was fixed. Other than that I'm most curious about the airframe work that's been done since the last paint job. The pictures seem to indicate in addition to the cowl closure, that the windshield and windows have both had work since the last repaint. Do you know when that work was done, and who by? It seems very odd that there are new rivets seemingly right over the old ones around the windows. Unfortunately as much as I'd love to be able to consider making an offer I'm still a month or two away from having enough cash on hand.

Ok, makes sense.

I'm pretty sure we'll do full stalls and spins. I definitely feel I need to know what those feel like in order to become a good pilot. I'm curious about what you're saying. I definitely wouldn't want to buy a plane that's been on the ground that long without getting a complete annual as a prebuy, but what's to stop me, if I decide to buy it, (and there's nothing major wrong) from having the annual signed off on so that the plane is airworthy again? If there is anything major wrong it's going to have to be fixed before I could get the ferry permit anyway right?

@pinerunner: It's official, I've gotten to an airport! Started training out of KOAK in a regular ol C152. I certainly haven't abandoned thoughts of buying a plane though. I'm keeping eyes on the listings going through barnstormers, trade-a-plane, ASO, All American, and LASAR. Just found an excellent looking B for a price I can afford easily withing 100 miles of me. Cool because I could actually go take a look at it, but iffy because it's been grounded for four years. Also an anomolous plane for other reasons -- IFR GPS but still manual gear and a fixed pitch prop. Could be just right for a student who wants to put some time into learning maintenance, so long as I pin the tail on the repairs budget. http://www.lasar.com/w/id/177/new-plane-details.asp

I have decided to start in on the process in earnest, and am attacking it from all sides. The insurance side has revealed that the insurance companies too are interested in the quality of flight instructor who would be training me (in any plane). Financing seems to demand knowledge of which plane I want to purchase. From all this, I have deduced that the first logical step is indeed to find a CFI. Hopefully sitting down and having a chat with these people about the situation I'm in will give me some insight into their experience as well as whether they're someone with whom I think I'd learn well. As far as explicitly hunting down a 'tired' plane I'm not so sure. Seems to me like everyone says it's a buyers market and there's no point taking a fixer upper when you can find a plane in good shape that won't need much work.

SF is mostly as expensive as New York, but there's less sprawl of expense. You can escape a bit of it by going across the bay to the north or east.

Classic Catch 22. Do you pay so much to keep your plane conveniently close that you wish you didn't own one, or do you keep it somewhere where during rush hour and on weekends you practically need a plane to get to your plane... Fortunately I can get to Hayward from downtown in a 30 minute BART ride, so that might not be bad. I'll definitely ping Karim. Thanks!!

Yeah I live in the city. I've learned to add at least 40% to the cost of everything as stated by people living elsewhere... I'm eyeing KOAK. Just got in touch with an instructor who teaches out of that airport and he's willing to sit down with me and have a chat about what I'm looking to do. I've been able to find out next to nothing about hangarage, but maybe he will have some answers about that and other costs.

@prifly: Woof, it has electrical and radios. All metal. No hand propping. Basically a taildragger Cessna. Insurance/instructor problems... unknown... http://jacksaircraft.com/aircrafts/index.php/featured-aircrafts/121

Alright, I'm back. I've read everything all of you have to say, and it has been super helpful! It seems my answers are: Yes: I am crazy. I have the Mooney bug. No: It is not very feasible to to earn a PPL in a Mooney. There are real risks, probable bumps, and lots of insurance costs. No (yes?): It is not necessarily silly to learn in a plane you own, especially if it can take some bumps. I think my new and revised plan is basically the same, but start off with something a bit more manageable both on approach and in terms of cost. There's a cute looking Luscombe over on controller for 25k. Sure the license may be a bit slower if it spends time grounded, but if the license takes longer at least it's still flying time in my plane. @JediNein: I am in SF proper, and though SJ isn't terribly far it's still a ways. I would still be interested to get the name of, and perhaps even talk to, the CFI you mention! Thanks so much all!

@M20FTraveler: How was the insurance situation for you buying without a private license? Or will you not get insurance/fly the plane until you get your certificate?