DS1980

Maybe I have some physics wrong, but don't focus on terminology. Focus on content. What's the bottom line? There is such thing as Vne, it's a TAS, it's not the radial line, and the FAA doesn't know what it is or what it means although they made up the word.

Post #64. It doesn't matter what the FAA says about Vne. Currently there is a major push to rewrite part 23. Will the FAA definition of Vne or how it's calculated change? I bet it doesn't, for no other reason than they don't know what it means. While flying, there is a true airspeed at which the frequency magnitude of the air hitting the airframe will cause a resonance that induces flutter. This will happen before the tail or wings separate due to aerodynamic loads. This speed is Vne, whether or not the FAA or the manufacturer knows this speed. Vne is not a red radial line. It is not part 23.

Show me an article from another manufacturer that states where they derive Vne. We know from articles on this thread that Mooney has tested their airframes to flutter speed.

Because the FAA and manufacturers think Vne is an IAS. They are incorrect. Just like Lycoming is incorrect to suggest running their engines at 50 degrees ROP. A Vne of 195 KIAS at 25,000 feet (service ceiling) is 292 KTAS. Mooney says the normal cruise speed of the Type S is 230 KTAS.

Nailed it aviatoreb

Yea, I don't understand the "don't want a parachute" crowd. Maybe folks that fly east of the Rockies. Although not an alternate for good flight planning, I would take a chute here any day!

Not good news for anyone with a 201 or faster.

Posts # 14, 20, 25, 44, 47 and 52. All arguing that Vne is an IAS.

See post #16. Beat ya!

Is this new? It says it's at 70 airports? Where have I been? What year is it? What's a Mooney?

I just want to know why the resistance to Vne being TAS. I stated a fact and got railed.

stale mate

Yes, because the owners manual is always right. In reference to the SB, why does it call for the new ASIs to be TRUE airspeed indicators?

Don't know what else to say. Folks, Vne is a true airspeed. Prove that Vne is arbitrary. What manufacturer said that? You're all over the place. First you say that Vne is not based on anything. Then you say it builds in a safety margin based on aerodynamic forces. Wouldn't there have to be a known phenomenon to build in a safety margin, either from flight testing or structural analysis?

I'm not speaking of any plane in particular. I'm speaking of what Vne is. It's a true airspeed. Most airplanes will flutter before structural failure. 0:50-1:05 Call Mooney. I'm sure an engineer or test pilot will tell you exactly when the Mooney flutters. Maybe they won't.

Gracious. But thank Krueger. A well written article.

Have you experienced anything odd about the power on stall in your Mooney?

Yes, it's marked on the dial to show what it would be at standard atmosphere at service ceiling. When is the only time your fuel gauges have to be accurate? Not very helpful are they. Most pilots know much more about aerodynamics and airplanes than the FAA. I could explain to you why Vne is not an indicated airspeed, but Mr. Krueger will do it much better. Please read attached article. Vne-and-hp_limts.pdf

I was in the same boat, and thought exactly how you did. Blew my mind when I read about it. But when I think about it in terms of flutter other than structural load, it makes sense, as Vne is a function of when the air frequency hitting the plane matches the internal resonance of the airframe. So when you hear about people cruising high in the yellow or "bringing her all the way to the red radial line," they might be beyond Vne. The only thing that saves them is the margin of safety built into the calculations and airframes. I guess it helps having a plane with a spar 11 inches thick.

He wasn't comparing models, just asking about pre-J. Simply asking what speed mods do to speed limitations, which is nothing.

Not sure of the question. If asking about the green, yellow and white arcs, these will remain the same. Stall, flap and gear speeds will remain the same. I do not believe in maneuvering speed but this will not change either. These are INDICATED airspeeds. Vne is a TRUE airspeed and will not change. It is based on the frequency magnitude (true) of air hitting the airframe rather than the mass (indicated). The airplane doesn't care what speed mods it has on it. The mods must not interfere with flight characteristics or affect the structure of the airframe. 150 knots is 150 knots, whether or not you have modifications.

I'm surprised you were able to get that close to a BONE without getting shot.

I would think by definition, it being a TFR that civilian aircraft would not be allowed inside without prior permission. Are there different categories of TFRs? I must have missed that day at ground school.

Why not fly the airplane the way you want? Sounds like 30 minutes of stick and rudder/instrument practice. Go for it.

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