How far is my cart in front of my horse?

[Shaark92]

9 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Which AFRES Unit?  I was a Hog Driver for MD ANG.

47th FS, BAD.  They got “BRAC’d” in ‘95, turned into an RTU.  I then went on EAD to no hope Pope and the 75thFS

[Shaark92]

11 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

I think you can find a good J for 100ish.

I did, mine has old avionics but dual VOR / ILS with old A/P, Garmin 430W, dual Comms. Engine is a Gann performance engine that had about 500 hours on it, Prop overhauled at same time as engine, all accessories replaced at overhaul. starter, alternator all hoses etc.

It’s an 81 model with 2,000 hours TT. Oh and the bladders were installed four or five years before I bought her.

Her weak links if you will are old but good serviceable avionics. I actually prefer them as it’s what I trained on back in the day and to be really pretty she needs new paint. The interior is original but as she honestly has always been hangared other than obviously being 1980’s vintage it’s in pretty good shape.

But the 500 hour Gann motor and prop plus the nearly new bladders to me more than make up for not having a glass cockpit and leather interior.

But you’re going to have to search, and have cash in hand because a good deal won’t last long. I was looking at mine within 24 hours of listing and the seller honestly had gotten a cash offer sight unseen for asking price as I was there.

However he was a “Good ole Boy and we had already shaken hands so he honored our deal.

 

Thanks.  That’s encouraging.

OH ... meant to ask in my first post ... 

does mooneyspace prefer more threads and stay closely on target ... or longer threads with allowance for a few rabbit chases?

Sorry for the omission.  I’ll start my own, so as not to dump on the OP ... but I’ve been “debriefed” on other BBSs ...  starting what is likely a repetitive thread for the graybeards here.

Al

Edited January 29 by Shaark92

[Pinecone]

7 hours ago, Shaark92 said:

47th FS, BAD.  They got “BRAC’d” in ‘95, turned into an RTU.  I then went on EAD to no hope Pope and the 75thFS

Funny, I did my A-10 transition at BAD.  917th AFRES was the RTU for ANG and AFRES.  I was in the first long course (no previous fighter experience) they did in the A-10.  They had previously been the RTU for A-37s.   I was there Spring/Summer 1982.

[Dtips]

On 1/27/2024 at 11:31 AM, A64Pilot said:

Curious, what’s meant by family?

My opinion worth what you paid for it is that my J with four Adults is tight, I’ve done it with my two grown Daughters, but it was just a couple hour trip from Central Fl to Central Al and I won’t promise you that we weren’t overgross either.

I assume it would be tighter in an older Mooney, so small kids sure, adults? Not so much.

Back to that opinion, a J is to me is a very nice traveling machine for a couple, can carry lots of gas and a decent amount of baggage.

But it might be informative if you took the total weight of the family and see how much fuel could be carried. In truth you can ship baggage ahead of you if you’re only going to one destination, staying awhile and flying back. Carry what we used to call a RON bag with toothbrush, fresh underwear etc in the plane with you, just in case you have to remain overnight, and there is almost always a Walmart too if it goes more than overnight.

Foreflight standard weights are 205 for a man, 185 for a Woman. Many may be less but my guess is for Retirement age people that may be close to average.

I have a family of 5, plus 2(now) grandbabies. I'm big. everyone else is average or less. I assume. most trips with family would be within 300 miles at least to start out (after I was truly proficient) and likely only 2-3 of us would go.  I do get that 900ish useable doesn't go far with 245# of pilot and gas.

[Pinecone]

300 miles is about 2 hours in Mooney speak.

So 30 gallons, 245 for pilot gives 475 for pax and bags with a 900 UL.

So 2 more at 200 each, and you can still carry 75 pounds of baggage or more fuel and less baggage.

[A64Pilot]

On 1/30/2024 at 7:24 AM, Dtips said:

I have a family of 5, plus 2(now) grandbabies. I'm big. everyone else is average or less. I assume. most trips with family would be within 300 miles at least to start out (after I was truly proficient) and likely only 2-3 of us would go.  I do get that 900ish useable doesn't go far with 245# of pilot and gas.

You and I are within a lb or two of each other.

In my opinion and take that for what it’s worth is that a J model is the ideal two person traveling machine, but and this upsets people when I mention it but AK FSDO for example regularly or used to anyway grant a 10% overload exemptions for single engine 135 ops that requested it, maybe not now, my data is a decade old, but anyway they have done so for years and if there was a negative safety impact surely they wouldn’t.

Now as I understand it, that’s 10% over gross weight, not a 10% increase in useful, and that’s a pretty big number.

I wonder if they still do?

If faced with pushing fuel or being a little overgross, I’m going to be overgross, worrying about fuel sux, just don’t. I’ve landed someplace to find the fuel pump broken too, I stop wherever gas is cheap, and that’s almost always small airports with one fuel pump, having plenty of gas to go on to the next airport saved the day.

Besides I think it best for the tanks to remain close to full anyway, if you do, what’s the plan to defuel for the trip?

When calculating baggage I at least always carry a can of windshield cleaner, quart of oil, jumper cables and tie downs and a tow bar as a min, and that stuff adds up. Often I carry a small tool bag with tools (shaving kit sized bag), nothing excessive, silly tie downs are heavy though. The Claw I think it’s called, 8 lbs maybe? 

It’s actually pretty easy and not all that expensive to ship your baggage to where you’re going, had a friend that flew Airshows in a Pitts that did that. He loved it, said having the heavy luggage in his room when he got there was priceless, He carried a wallet and a small bag with necessities in case of bad Wx or maintenance. Much better plan I think to ship a suitcase and carry extra fuel.

But take this in the manner it’s meant, meaning trying to be helpful, but at this time in truth you really don’t have a clue as to what you need, you think you know what you want.

The difference in travel time between a Mooney and a C-172 over a 300 mile trip is measured in minutes, it’s not a big number, much longer trips is where it begins to matter, and the fuel burn is likely more than offset by cheaper maintenance costs.

If you shop around and buy a good fixed gear, fixed prop airplane and keep it for a year or two and get your instrument ticket, you will be able to sell it for what you paid, your insurance will be much less expensive and you’ll have a much better idea of what you need, and a much better idea of what’s a good deal, and now since your hanging around the airport and have met several fellow pilots if they know your looking for a Mooney they will tell you about any that may be coming up for sale.

Often that’s how you find a deal, inside information.

Weight wise a 180 HP 172 will haul anything my J will as will an older 182. 182 isn’t fixed prop but still it’s easier than a Mooney, more forgiving and I’m sure insurance is easier.

I’ve seen some good deals on older straight tailed 182’s and many will tell you the straight tails fly better, I think so anyway.

But take one of those and put a couple hundred hours on it in two years and it’s likely it will sell for more than you paid for it, old airplanes if flown regularly and decently maintained don’t depreciate it seems, most have flown little in the last couple of years and they don’t sell well because of that, but put a couple hundred hours on it and it will sell for more.

Finally I’ll warn you that an old complex airplane no matter how well a pre-buy was done has the likelyhood of getting real expensive, fast, often at the first Annual.

Ideal is when you have your first beginner airplane you find an A&P that lets you do the grunt work, de-paneling, washing, repacking wheel bearings, you know the dirty work and leave him to do the inspecting. I’ve been told that will save you a lot of money, and makes owning an older Mooney much more affordable so long as you don’t mind getting your hands dirty.

I’m abdicating you to ease into this is all. 

I’ve seen it beak many people is all, and in truth we all run the possibility of finding $50,000 worth of metal in our oil filters, don’t think that doesn’t keep me up at night at times.

A rental? That’s their $50K problem, not yours

[Dtips]

On 1/31/2024 at 11:35 AM, A64Pilot said:

You and I are within a lb or two of each other.

In my opinion and take that for what it’s worth is that a J model is the ideal two person traveling machine, but and this upsets people when I mention it but AK FSDO for example regularly or used to anyway grant a 10% overload exemptions for single engine 135 ops that requested it, maybe not now, my data is a decade old, but anyway they have done so for years and if there was a negative safety impact surely they wouldn’t.

Now as I understand it, that’s 10% over gross weight, not a 10% increase in useful, and that’s a pretty big number.

I wonder if they still do?

If faced with pushing fuel or being a little overgross, I’m going to be overgross, worrying about fuel sux, just don’t. I’ve landed someplace to find the fuel pump broken too, I stop wherever gas is cheap, and that’s almost always small airports with one fuel pump, having plenty of gas to go on to the next airport saved the day.

Besides I think it best for the tanks to remain close to full anyway, if you do, what’s the plan to defuel for the trip?

When calculating baggage I at least always carry a can of windshield cleaner, quart of oil, jumper cables and tie downs and a tow bar as a min, and that stuff adds up. Often I carry a small tool bag with tools (shaving kit sized bag), nothing excessive, silly tie downs are heavy though. The Claw I think it’s called, 8 lbs maybe? 

It’s actually pretty easy and not all that expensive to ship your baggage to where you’re going, had a friend that flew Airshows in a Pitts that did that. He loved it, said having the heavy luggage in his room when he got there was priceless, He carried a wallet and a small bag with necessities in case of bad Wx or maintenance. Much better plan I think to ship a suitcase and carry extra fuel.

But take this in the manner it’s meant, meaning trying to be helpful, but at this time in truth you really don’t have a clue as to what you need, you think you know what you want.

The difference in travel time between a Mooney and a C-172 over a 300 mile trip is measured in minutes, it’s not a big number, much longer trips is where it begins to matter, and the fuel burn is likely more than offset by cheaper maintenance costs.

If you shop around and buy a good fixed gear, fixed prop airplane and keep it for a year or two and get your instrument ticket, you will be able to sell it for what you paid, your insurance will be much less expensive and you’ll have a much better idea of what you need, and a much better idea of what’s a good deal, and now since your hanging around the airport and have met several fellow pilots if they know your looking for a Mooney they will tell you about any that may be coming up for sale.

Often that’s how you find a deal, inside information.

Weight wise a 180 HP 172 will haul anything my J will as will an older 182. 182 isn’t fixed prop but still it’s easier than a Mooney, more forgiving and I’m sure insurance is easier.

I’ve seen some good deals on older straight tailed 182’s and many will tell you the straight tails fly better, I think so anyway.

But take one of those and put a couple hundred hours on it in two years and it’s likely it will sell for more than you paid for it, old airplanes if flown regularly and decently maintained don’t depreciate it seems, most have flown little in the last couple of years and they don’t sell well because of that, but put a couple hundred hours on it and it will sell for more.

Finally I’ll warn you that an old complex airplane no matter how well a pre-buy was done has the likelyhood of getting real expensive, fast, often at the first Annual.

Ideal is when you have your first beginner airplane you find an A&P that lets you do the grunt work, de-paneling, washing, repacking wheel bearings, you know the dirty work and leave him to do the inspecting. I’ve been told that will save you a lot of money, and makes owning an older Mooney much more affordable so long as you don’t mind getting your hands dirty.

I’m abdicating you to ease into this is all. 

I’ve seen it beak many people is all, and in truth we all run the possibility of finding $50,000 worth of metal in our oil filters, don’t think that doesn’t keep me up at night at times.

A rental? That’s their $50K problem, not yours

a lot to ponder there. I appreciate all of it.  thanks so much for your input.

[A64Pilot]

12 hours ago, Dtips said:

a lot to ponder there. I appreciate all of it.  thanks so much for your input.

Just remember it’s just an opinion.

It’s just I think there is something to be said for the progressive approach so to speak, sure it’s delayed gratification but I think the more airframes you can fly the better a pilot you will become, and older aircraft while they aren’t a smart investment, no airplane is, but they don’t seem to lose their value, I’m not a smart person with money but it seems they may hold their value, just don’t be bit by the I want to upgrade bug until your sure you have the airplane you will be happy with ten years from now. If it’s been flying for the last 40 years without a fancy engine monitor, chances are it will make another year without one, but put anything in there for engine monitor, I’m not knocking them, plug in new paint job or new interior instead, just saying don’t put big money into something you don’t plan on keeping

Nothing wrong with a Ipad running Foreflight or good headsets etc because they carry over to the next airplane

I think you will learn a heck of a lot owning a simple airplane for a year or so, and be a whole lot more educated with what your needs vs wants are, maybe form that maintenance network that your going to need.

Me for example, I really don’t need a Mooney, but I’ve always wanted one, but logically I should be flying a simple airplane. I try to justify that by telling myself that being an A&P/IA changes the rules for me, maybe it does but in truth it probably doesn’t as much as I’d like. If it weren’t for that no question I’d be in an Experimental, an RV-8 would fill my needs as I’m sure others would too.

Not a month goes by that I don’t consider selling the Mooney and buying something that would be smarter, but I don’t, because I’ve wanted a Mooney since I was a little boy dodging clouds in my Fathers C model.