funvee

My oil loss is definitely proved to be gone and not just a drip down problem in that we have tried doing multiple 2 and 3 hr flights with a solid 24 hr period of sitting after flight before taking a reading. When I fly the 2 hour ones and check it the following day I will be down 2Qt and the 3 hr ones will be down 3qt. We have also tried a variety of different starting quantities to see if my F 'likes' a certain level. So far we have tried 4, 5, 6 and 6.5 qt. the 6.5 qt lost even more than normal so we chalked that up to the plane not liking more that 6qt. I'm not sure what the air / oil seperator is but I'll look into that for sure! Thanks

I forgot to mention that mag timing was done in our process of elimination. However, I don't think there was anything done with the prop using a gauge. I'll ask him today. Just for clarity sake... My only temp that is high is my oil. My head temps are not out of the green (we haven't tested that temp probe though so I guess it could be reading good when its actually not.

That is the problem, we can't figure where the oil is going. No sign of it on the belly of the plane, no sign of it on the plugs, no sign of it as smoke coming out the exhaust and no leaks inside the engine bay. I know that a lot of posts on this sight have said running hot is ok but I disaggree.... As soon as my temp gets hot, my pressure starts dropping until I am forced to land and put more in. Once it starts, it doesn't seem to stop unless I can get the temp down to the green. When I look at the oil on the dipstick after hot flight, it is more like water than oil in that it is super thin.

My inlet/exit are both on the bottom of the unit. One on port side bottom and other on starboard bottom.

my F has that scat tube come straight through the back baffle on Cyl 4. basically right where the relocated cooler would go if I go that route.

I would KILL for 190 We just did a new compression test on the weekend and my mx said the plugs all looked perfect when he pulled them. I don't know if the valve guides could lead to this problem but he say's he's running out of ideas unless there is a specific issue with m20f's and proper cooling. Thats why I thought I better post here for more specialized help.

I forgot to mention... I think that scat tube you are referring to is the fuel pump cooler air flow (thats what my mx told me)

My cooler is right up front beside the ram air intake but I was thinking about doing the relocate STC to move it to the back of Cyl 4 but I'm not sure if that would be significantly better cooling than having it open to the front flow of air from the prop.

Vernatherm was replaced.

Heeeeelp, Ok here is the whole skinny. I am in Canada but bought my 67 F last October from Oregon. The plane had about 3900 tt and 600smoh but it had one low compression (75/76/61/72) When flying it back from Oregon, I noticed the Oil temp was running high. It was up around 220 and the oil pressure was dropping off so I stopped and added 2 liters when my pressure had dropped under 30. My next stop was to drop the plane off where it was getting it's import inspection and it's first Canadian Annual. I told the AME about the oil problem and he said he'd have a look. When I finally got my plane back from the annual and import, I was told that he had sent my oil cooler out for a rebuild and a full flush/flow test. "Everything should be fine now" but he thought I had a set of rings likely responsible for the oil loss. When I flew it the 1 hour back to my airport, I notice it was still high (220-240) and it was -10 C out that day so I should have had plenty of cooling. When I got there and let the plane sit and cool off, I noticed it had 'Lost' 1 litter of oil (on only 1 hr flight). No noticeable oil on the belly and no carbon buildup in the exhaust tip. Discussed with my mx and he thought we'd start with the rings on the low cyl. Turns out the scavenger ring was broken in 3 pieces. Replaced that set of rings and redid compression (76/77/71/76). Still high oil temp and same oil loss. I noticed that after flying, if I shut down and quickly went to feel the oil cooler, it was ice cold every time. No matter how hot the temp gauge had read or how cold the OAT was. Flying at -35c I still had temps 220-240 and I was still loosing about 1L/Hr. So, next we thought it might be the pressure relief valve failing and letting the oil flow straight out the bottom dump hose or that the Vernatherm was failing and not sending any oil to the cooler. So, we changed them both with new ones and still same problem. Then, took the oil cooler out and my mx ran varsol though it to see how it was flowing and everything was fine. Tested the cooler hoses to make sure they both flow ok and they where fine too. (We have done 3 Oil changes and cut filters since trying to figure this out... all where nice and clean) Next, we thought we better verify the gauge.... We took an accurate thermometer, a tin pan of fresh oil, the sender probe and heated it all with a heat gun. We verified the gauge in the plane was accurate with the thermometer all the way to 260deg. It was amazing how accurate it was. Next up, my mx wanted to cover the cooler because he thought the oil might be getting over cooled (and getting too think to flow) due to the -20c temps we had been flying in. So, today, I did aluminum tape over the cooler and went out flying.... Heat went through the roof and was over 260deg (in cruise with OAT -15c) so I brought it right back and got down on the ground as quick as possible. After stopping, I went up front and the cooler was hot for the first time EVER... That was the first time I even felt a bit of heat on the cooler but obviously covering it completely didn't work because it didn't get any cooling (even though it proved it can flow ok under some circumstances). Also... on that flight, I wanted to "verify" whether or not the oil was dumping through the pressure relief valve so, I taped a condom over the tube bottom and was hoping to see if fluid was coming out instead of just moisture vapour but the condom had ripped right off so no indication what happened there. The inside of the dump tube had very thin oil in it if I stuck my pinkie in there... and the oil was strangely new looking (no blackening at all like it is on the dipstick). My mx is running out of ideas what is causing the high oil temp and what is causing the loose of oil. We are going to check the valve guides as soon as his new valve wobble test tool arrives off of backorder but in the mean time..... Heeeeeeelp! Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. So in summary, I'm "loosing" 1L/Hr of oil and my Oil temp gets really hot ~240deg, following that my oil pressure drops right down under 50 and keeps goind down until I land and add more oil. I am looking at the oil relocator kit from Lasar but won't do that unless it is going to fix my temp problem. I'm ok with the cooler where it is if it would just work. If you made it to the bottom of this long winded description, thanks! Shawn

Looks like thats our plan now... Hope to have a new one tomorrow to try. Thanks for the help!!

That's Matt! The oil cooler was rebuilt and flow tested 100% good last month. Oil lines too/from the cooler are easy to blow through once you get the oil out of them. On the vernotherm, screw top is tight and can't be moved. The sealing surface has a sign of wear like a ring but we don't know how because even when it it cold it doesn't reach up far enough to touch the port it should be blocking. We tried heating it with a heat gun butt it didn't get longer or shorter... No change. When it is installed and cold, are we correct in thinking that it should be contacting and blocking the oil cooler port on the top and then when it heats up it retracts and lets oil flow up and through the cooler? Thanks!

Ok, if anyone has more guidance it would be hugely appreciated... Here is the update. Spent all last night at the plane with my MX to try to figure out why the plane is loosing oil. We thought it was related to the fact that very little, if any, oil was going through the cooler. So my oil temps were up around 200 or higher on my gauge. I don't trust those gauges but I do assume they are right about the high temp... But the cooler is always cold to the touch and the lines to/from it are too. We took the filter and filter adapter off to check the thermostat spring thing but couldn't tell if it is working or failed... I don't know what it is "supposed" to look like and I can't find any specs for that part online so we can test its function. We cleaned it all out so there is no gunk in it blocking the function but it wasn't that dirty to begin with. Does anyone have details on that part and how to test it? If you have a picture of what it should look like that would be awesome too. Thanks, Shawn

Super. Thanks, ill look for the SB... I haven't seen one but might have missed it.

Is it the big bolt on the top of the adapter?

Does anyone know exactly where the oil cooler by-pass valve is on a 67 F? If you have a picture/part number that would be great! I am not getting oil to my cooler and my oil temp is sky high and I am using oil like crazy even with good compressions. When I shutdown and feel the cooler it is as cold as the cowl with no hint of warmth so I assume veeeery little, if any, oil is getting there. I think the air intake going through the reservoir is all that is doing any cooling to the oil. Thanks Shawn

Ya, I thought the part about the F having plenty of space to do stretcher service with an attendant in there too was kinda neat. I can't imagine fitting a stretcher in mine

I'm looking for the exact same part fr my 67 F, if you find a supply, please let me know. Thanks Shawn

Instead of me trying to email everyone, I just copied them up to my server with the service manual too. They were getting rejected by your email servers due to the size of them... I didn't know they ended up so big Here is the link to them: http://compu-knights.com/fileshare/mooney/ New link: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/23ji46lpzilo0xc/AABYnFYl98P89SV9gYMsA6N5a enjoy Shawn

Hi all, I scanned my poh and an Executive 21 brochure and created a pdf out of them.... I tried to upload them for anyone that was interested but this site keeps rejecting them so if you want a copy, pm me and I'll send them to you. Shawn

I went with Sky-Tech and have had nothing but good things to say about it so far. I've flown as far north as Norway House, Manitoba this winter and the cold hasn't slowed it down one bit. Shawn

I think Cris nailed it... Up here (Winnipeg, Canada), I always have much much more snow on the wings then on the tail so I can't imagine it ever getting to be a problem. (but I reserve the right to be wrong) Shawn