Gone

I think you folks are going about it in the best possible way. I started looking for my Mooney in March 2004 and I eventually signed the deal for it in February 2005. In the interim, I found a great MSC to work with, went through eight offers and did five pre-purchase inspections. Isn't it funny that the way we buy them is the way we will fly them?

Using the touch screen in turbulance requires patience. But it does work with just your finger. Remember that I use the handheld only to enhance my own situational awareness - nothing else. I set it up so that the aircraft is centred and the range rings approximate a lost engine glide distance from the planned cruising altitude. Then I tend to leave it alone. Modifying the display in flight becomes easier to get other bits of info (like time to a waypoint) if the cockpit workload allows and things are not shaking up too much. If I had been able to afford it at the time, I would have probably opted for a 496. But the AV8OR met the most pressing needs at a price I could afford, in a year when the overhaul really cut into any other purchases.

I bought the AV8OR because of the price, and it is ready to receive in-flight weather from XM (requires a separate receiver with a cable to join the two). Sunlight readable, easy to use, cheap. I have a GPS in the panel. Its job is to help fly the airplane and reduce workload. My AV8OR's job is to help me with situational awareness and keep me in tune with the map on my kneeboard.

Hi folks: The tow bar that came with C-FSWR was modified with a hole at the end of the actual bar - so that a pin could fit into the hole and keep the tow bar in place during manoeuving. It is attached to long section by a loop of skinny bungee cord. It has been further modified to strengthen the weld at the join of the two pieces of steel. I am attaching a rough sketch. Hope this helps

Hello All: Just got this off the aviating dot com Mooney Talk List. . Lots of discussion on that list over this pilot showing a teenager how to stall a Mooney, after which it entered a spin to the left. Scared the heck out of me - not because he put his Mooney into a spin (even though my POH says that spins are not authorised) but because he is so cavalier about it. Note that the pilot is not wearing his shoulder belt. The roaring engine during recovery leaves me with the impression he firewalled the throttle in an initial attempt at recovery - but I could be wrong about that. I have listened to enough anecdotal evidence that indicates our Mooney birds can be recovered from a spin. Takes concentration, work, and may require 900 feet or more - or so I am told. I have heard some state that the manoeuvre is doable, but they cannot determine why one would want to (at least in a Mooney). I have stalled my own Mooney about 20 times during flight reviews. It has always been characterised by a gentle nose drop while I get ready for the spin - but that part has never happened to me. I had one really good instructor once tell me that safe flying often depends on knowing the procedures and executing them well. Like other skilsets, I guess. Short version: follow procedures or UWOF (upside down in the weeds on fire). In this case, for me, the procedure is: don't spin a Mooney. I am not really keen on the UWOF option. Just my opinion. By the way, here is Paul Bertorelli of AVWeb doing his version of the analysis of Cirrus stall-spin-crash-burn put together by folks that know more about this than I do.

Bodie: The Chief Flight Instructor at our flying club (7000+ hours and a winner of the Abrahmson Canadian national air safety award) once told me about the best safety device to take flying: "You can control lots of things and the better prepared you are, the better things will turn out. You can't control everything, and if you realise that the best outcome is the one where you were prepared for almost any eventuality, then you will do weill when it happens. Keep planning for it to happen, and hope it does not." You are your own best safety device.

Russ: Is yours in a hanger, or on the ramp? You can already tell where mine is. By the way, I like your tagline. Reflects my own.

Howard: Don't be so hard on the benefits. I think the rounded windows are a plus, regardless if they look like they were added on later.

Buster: Value of aircraft is USD. Price is CDN. Whenever USD falls, then price must also fall in order for the Canadian Mooney to be marketable (to both Cdn and US prospective buyers). Otherwise, a prospective buyer can just cross the border and import the same model from the US (with whatever inspection/import penalty goes with such a decision) with similar "goodies" for that much less cost. The really, really hard thing for a Mooney driver parting with their bird is to lower the price (Cdn $ price) because the market value of his bird is determined by the value of the US dollar. 90% of a/c market is in the US. Y'all set market values and we just follow along. This OK?

Buster: It is about the exchange rate. A Canadian Mooney driver that is parting with his bird might say, for example: I bought this airplane for $95,000 Cdn when the Cdn dollar was worth 0.75 USD. Now you want me to sell if for $85,000 Cdn because our dollar is now worth 0.95 USD? It is the US dollar value of the a/c that governs.

Eric: My apologies if I mistook your meaning. I know it can be difficult to find a good shop. I was luckier than most. I wish you luck in your search. Even if one might not consider that your bird deserves a good shop, you do.

Please don't take my comments the wrong way, but I get the feeling that the money you spend on your airplane causes you some difficulty. I am not going to try and tell you that you need to spend more money on your airplane, but in many service industries ( I work in laboratory accreditation) you have three conditions on the type of service work you can ask to have done: test this, certify that, inspect this, repair that, etc. The service can be delivered to you fast, cheap, and done correctly. You get to pick two out of three. For my own sake, the sake of my passengers, and the sake of those on the ground who did not sign up for any possibility of an in-flight engine failure, my priorities are "done correctly" followed by whichever of the other two governs at the time. An annual takes 36 hours, according to the book and I am OK with that. My '65 M20E is maintained by an MSC whose owner, like Don Maxwell, owns and flies his own Mooney. In Clarence's case, it is a '66 M20E. His knowledge (and admiration) of Mooney's he has saved my wallet and my bacon more than once. He is more expensive than the little shop on my field but he knows what he is doing, when it comes to my Mooney. The local shop dislikes them because they are "knuckle busters" and too tight to get at things. Out of the five Mooney's on my field, two of us go to the same MSC, 90 Mooney minutes away. See the attached photo. The shop that left my airplane out in the rain with the cheek cowls off only got one chance to do that. Never again. More expensive at my MSC 200 nm away, but never again. It may be that not all MSC's are as diligent as I am painting Clarence's shop, but I do not know many others and I cannot say. Some, like Don Maxwell's shop have envious reputations for "doing it right." Once the decision is made by the pilot to spend the money on whatever work needs doing, these folks are more worried about doing it right than shaving money and saving time. That is exactly how I want them to work. No new expenses without my approval, but no hiding the necessity of anyting either. I know that my annual, because my aircraft is a Mooney, costs at least twice what an annual for a Cessna 172 costs (at least those 172's done by the little shop on my field). My decision to own and fly one of Al's designs included that consideration. Sometimes I find it hard to balance all the costs of owning one, but when I decide Clarence is too expensive, I am going to sell my E model and buy something that flies lower and slower, and costs less to maintain.

Yup. No post lights in my right side. Nulites all round except for the Tach and MP gauge. Not enough room to fit the nulite rings in.

Harley: Same thing on mine with different texture. My overlay is now only on the right (co-pilot) side and it is black plastic. The left panel is a more recent six-pack panel (with overlay removed) and the right side still probably original. See the pictures. I would take the plastic off the right side too, but the aluminum it covers is not good enough to be exposed.

I imagine number of us have landed our Mooney's in crosswinds significantly beyond the "demonstrated component" numbers shown in the POH. Doing so makes us all "test pilots" of course, but that airframe is one of the best crosswind birds in the industry (IMO). I have put mine down in 20+ knot crosswinds. There are a couple of things I try to remember (all after the GUMP check of course). - less flaps to land (especially if it is gusting) - a bit more speed (not too much) if at max gross (5 mph for each 10kt of x-wind) - a bit less speed if significantly lower than gross (minus 5 mph for each 300 lb under gross) - upwind wing low first, then compensate with rudder to keep on the centreline (sit forward enough to put the rudder to stops) - land on upwind gear. If the rudder is at the stops and you cannot hold it on the centerline, this technique is not working for you. Time for a Plan B. Bottom line? Mooneys land really well and very stable in crosswind conditions. Just gotta get a good instructor to show you how. Then when you are comfortable with whatever technique you use, you will know what it can do.

I would also emphasise the need for getting three-point belts for the front seats. Very important. And they are relatively inexpensive - about .6AMU all up. The engine monitor is also a must-have if you are planning on running the engine as it was desiged to run and going to 2000 hours. If you can manage the temperatures, your engine will go the distance for you.

Robert: I own an '65 E model and your numbers seem pretty reasonable. Don't know about getting that speed at 12,000 at 65% though. You will not have any problem transitioning from a twin to the Mooney. You already know their primary flight characteristics: They don't go down and they don't slow down (easily). As others have stated, the tail bolts, SB208 and inspection for corrosion in the wings (with liberal use of Corrosion X) are all items on any annual provided by a reputable MSC. I have had my Mooney for nearly 5 years now and the pre-purchase resulted in both tanks being re-sealed. it also resulted in having the rear-spar doubler installed. My last annual (at the end of a major overhaul) also resulted in the tail bolts and bushings being replaced. The bolts and bushings just had normal wear and were not very expensive to do. Great airplane. You will really enjoy it. Owning a Mooney gives you braggin' rights. My airplane was built in 1965 and it is the fifth fastest one on our field of 100. A Cirrus, a Bo, and two J models are faster than mine - at cruise - at altitude. And I am burning less than 10 gph. Gotta love it.

Buster: Book value depends on the evaluator/evaluation. I used AOPA VREF when I bought my E model in 2004. It was within 2AMUs of what was eventually agreed, minus the cost of making the aircraft airworthy following the pre-purchase inspection of course. I have heard that y'all have a few reputable a/c valuators in the US and they can give you a much more complete picture than the AOPA VREF, but it will cost you. If you are an AOPA member, its free. We have no equivalent online capability for COPA members in Canada - so I used the one from AOPA. "Membership has its priviledges." If you can appreciate that no negotiation is so important that you cannot walk away from it when the hairs on the back of your head stand up - you will get the a/c you want at a price that satisfies both you and the vendor. If either one of you is not happy, the sale will cause you trouble. Sometimes you have to walk away because the vendor lives on another planet. S'OK. IMHO, the best sale of an a/c (and I have only been involved in two purchases) is when a vendor wants to see you look after his bird as well as he/she did, because they no longer can. Extremely rare - but it has happened (although not to me). Good luck in your hunt. BTW: if the AT came with manual gear, I would have considered one. I like the dual brakes and the increased useful load. I like the manual gear more. So, for me, it was either a '65 or a '66 E model.

Between 100 and 120 per year. A quarter of it is paid (gas only) because of business use.

Jeez!! I forgot all about CoPilot. Better app on an iPhone than it ever was on a Palm Pilot/Treo. Its author also serves as the Treasurer of the Rockcliffe Flying Club (CYRO). Quite a few club members now have the iPhone with it loaded. The only dowside is that Laurie prefers his Cherokee 180 to a Mooney. Usual Disclaimer: I did not stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I do know Laurie Davis, and I hope he continues to maintain that app.

I use aeroweather as well. Great app. Thanks to the folks who suggested the GoodReader - pdfplates combo. Also works great. Not while flying an approach mind you, but good enough for initial flight planning.

I had mine done this year too. 28 AMUs. Four years after I bought C-FSWR. It was 350 hours to TBO when I bought it and I thought I might be able to make it go beyond TBO. In Canada, I am told that is called "on condition" that it is showing no signs of needing an overhaul. It showed the appropriate signs at 1951 hours - so I got it done. I got three and a half really good years out of the previous engine and the investment I made is for the next 20 years. If I were to buy an aircraft at TBO I would only ask myself who is paying for the previous use of the engine. If you think it was paid for by the previous owner - then no discount. If you think you are the one paying for it (in the cost of the overhaul) get them to drop the price by 25 AMUs and you can put it through the overhaul. Anything you pay over the 25K is on your nickel. Just my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it.

Buster: In 2004, I looked at eight Mooneys. Of those eight, I had six actually inspected - only one of which was looked at here in Ottawa. I had one inspected by a shop in each of: Ottawa, Ontario; Sprinkbank, Alberta; Charlotte, NC; Joplin, MO; Mobile, AL; and Waterloo, Ontario. All inspections were at my cost, ranging from $500 to $800 each, with the agreement of the vendor. I picked the shop (all local) and they delivered the plane for inspection. Every one of these inspections saved me from a $50,000 mistake. Not one of these inspections resulted in a list of airworthiness issues totalling less than $14,000 to fix. Only the owner of the E model that was inspected in Waterloo agreed to cover the costs of needed repairs, and we made the deal. By the time the aircraft rolled out of the shop two months later (with annual done) I had put in about $7,000 in other things, including a tank reseal, new style gear pucks, and some small panel adjustements. Here was my thinking. That shop owner works for me. They are my eyes on the aircraft and my instructions to them were to "go to town." They did. The reports were concise and informative. They found prop strikes not properly repaired, corrosion in the wings and on the steel frame, leaking tanks, holes in all kinds of hoses and tubing, tail feathers out of rig, and a whole host of other issues. My search was successful. I got three things out of this work. 1. A great Mooney that meets my needs, at a price I could affort 2. A much better understanding of Mooneys (at least E models), and 3. A great MSC owner (who also flies an E model of his own) who takes very good care of mine. All round win in my opinion. Secret to success? Find a good shop, pay them, and let them "go to town." They will work hard for you and help keep you from making an expensive mistake. Just my 2 cents....

Jolie: Don't want to take up too much bandwidth on this topic, so I thought I would just send you a picture of what I get. Getting to the page is not the problem. And the videos are at the bottom of the page. An attempt to open the video is when I get the attached. Hope this helps.

Jolie: Able to get to the facebook page, but unable to view the video without a facebook account. Sorry.