Lood

I haven't flown in a E model, but from what I've read, the F has a higher usefull load than the E model. IIRC, this is used up by 10 gal more fuel and the extra airfame weight, though. So, you can't really load more in the F but you do have 10 gal of extra fuel, which equates to roughly one hour more flying time. The E model also has the best take off performance of all Mooney's. My F cruises at around 138 kts using 10 gal/ hour and has a useful load of 1040 lbs.

I have a EI FP-5 fuel flow computer installed in my Mooney, as well as a JPI EDM 700 engine analyzer - without fuel flow, of course. I have my Garmin 296 mounted on the center post and last week, I had a power/data cable installed. Mainly to exclude the need to charge the Garmin's battery and instead, run it off the airplane's power. I took my Mooney in for an oil change as well as to have the power/data cable installed and I asked the technincian to connect the fuel flow to the GPS via the data connection. Well, he did exactly what I asked him to do, except that he connected the JPI's fuel flow lead to the GPS instead of the EI's. So, now I still don't have the fuel flow function between the EI fuel flow and GPS. When I asked whether the EI could indeed be interfaced with the GPS in terms of fuel flow, he wasn't sure as he has only done this exercize with JPI's. We left it like that, for the time being, as I had to leave. I would like to find out whether the EI FP-5 is indeed capable to interface with a G296 via the data cable to show fuel information, or not. If not, could the existing tranducers, wiring,etc. that currently drives the EI be used on the JPI to show fuel infomation? If the EI could interface with the G296, I'll just have it connected, but if not, I will have to upgrade the JPI to include fuel flow and then remove the EI. I would appreciate any advice.

I'm also interested. Mine really sucks. The fuel quantity gauges are even worse those I had in my C172 and the oil temp often needs reminding, by means of a finger tap or two, two wake up and work. CHT seems to be fine and I don't have anything to say about the poor effort put into the ammeter. Ooooh, I love my JPI.

Thanks for all the replies. Not exactly what I wanted to hear, but I'm pretty sure that used shafts will be much easier to come by than yokes.

Well, I kind of put the cart before the horse in this case. I bought a pair of OEM 201 yokes while my AME was/is still finding out whether these can actually be fitted in my '67 F. He wasn't sure whether 201 yokes will fit on the standard, thinner shaft of the F or whether the shaft also needs to be replaced with a thicker one. Any help to shed some light on this would be appreciated.

I would really appreciate it if any you '67 M20F drivers could help me out. I misplaced my POH and cannot find it anywhere. I did order a new one, but it looks as if I am not going to receive it in time. I am doing a flight this coming weekend and it is going to be either at, or very close to MAUW. I need the required runway length at, at max weight, under the following conditions: Airfield pressure altitude = 4000ft; expected OAT = 79 deg F

My JPI's alarm usually only goes off when I reduce rpm to below 1000rpm to do the mag dead cut check. I'm not sure where the voltage sits when I'm on the ground taxiing around at 1000-1200rpm, but in cruise flight, the JPI normally shows the battery voltage to be around 14,8 volts. I don't know where exactly it's measured though.

These seem nice too - just follow the "Airplane" link: http://www.rmsheepskin.com/

I installed an analogue Westach EGT gauge in the Robin I used to own and it worked really well. EI, among others, also makes some very nice digital EGT gauges. In fact, I had a four probe EI EGT installed in my Mooney before I replaced it with a JPI EDM700 and it also worked nicely.

If you don't have one already, you should really get at least one EGT gauge - or first prize: A JPI EDM 700. An EGT takes all the guess work out of leaning and will prevent you from running either too lean or too rich. I used to lean out on the ground - even at 3000', untill the engine started running a bit rough and then pushed the mixture in about 1". During climbout, I always keep a sharp eye on the CHT's and never let it go higher than 380 deg. Or if you have a single EGT, keep it at around 1200 deg during climbout but still keep an eye on the CHT. I had a serious backfire problem that was only solved once they did a complete rebuild of the exhaust muffler on my F. Many experts told me to do a thorough check for leaks on the intake side i.e. worn seals, gaskets, etc as well as on the exhaust side. Apparently these can also cause backfiring. Under normal circumstances, full rich and full power at 3000' shouldn't cause backfiring.

Personally, I would never attempt any LOP operations without an engine monitor. Running LOP requires good knowledge on the subject and you have to be able to monitor all temperatures very closely. I usually fly my M20F WOT, between 75 - 100 deg ROP, 2400 rpm and have an average fuel burn of 10 gal/ hour over the last 2+ years. Whether you have a fuel flow computer installed or not, do yourself a favour and empty your tanks one day. Then fill them with say 5 gal at a time and make yourself a dipstick that is specifically calibrated for your airplane. This way you will always know exactly how much fuel you have in the tanks and in a situation where your airplane sat quiet for a long period, you'll find that the dipstick is even more accurate that the feul flow computer.

Thanks for the replies. I usually set the mixture at 75 ROP, WOT and 2400rpm. This gives me around 140kts GS consuming 38 liters or 10 gal/hour. Highest EGT and CHT are in the region of 1400 deg and 340 deg. I'm planning to use my normal settings as above and then throttle back to say 34 liters or 9 gal/ hour and see what the speed and temps does and compare that with the same returns for LOP settings. Just want to do it out of curiousity.

Is there someone here that flies a M20F, preferably a '67 model, LOP? If possible, I'd like the figures in terms of average fuel consumption and TAS at 7-9k feet, please. If I can also get the average CHT's and EGT's, it would be a bonus. I have a test that I want to do on my '67 F and would like to compare the end results.

I used to have tha same problem on my F. During the last annual, the AME removed the oil cooler, had it ultrasonically cleaned and resprayed it with a heat conducting paint. They also did a superb job of insulating and properly routing the two oil lines running to and from the oil cooler. These were bare and are very close to the exhaust. I now see normal oil temps of 160 deg and during climbs and warm days it might max at 180 deg.

"Always fly as if your life depends on it..... because it does."

1) If you doubt, don't 2) Maintain thy airspeed, lest the earth shall arise and smite thee

Quote: JimR Yes, I think that those low gear and flap speeds are largely responsible for the seemingly widely held misperception that Mooneys are "hot" airplanes that are hard to handle. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth, but perception seems to be reality these days. The forums are full of pilots that have never set foot in a Mooney that perpetuate this myth, and to an even greater degree the myth that tall people "can't fit" in a Mooney. The higher gear and flap speeds of the 201 might functionally be it's greatest, and least talked about, improvement over earlier models. Jim

I've had my share of hot start struggles, but fortunately have it under control at this stage. I have a question though, as I have been caught out once or twice. If your first hotstart attempt is unsuccessfull, or rather if you were too slow to catch it, what do you do next? Repeat the procedure or proceed to a flooded start? I've been too slow with the mixture on a couple of hot start occasions which resulted in the engine tturning over a few times and then dying. In these situations, I really battled to get the engine going.

I usually plan to descend at 300 ft/min - mainly to protect my kids' ears. When cruising high, the descend starts quite far out from my home field. I normally trim the airplane for a 300 ft/min descend and then keep the MP at the cruise setting. This means roughly about 1" MP decrease every two and a half minutes. From 9500' for instance, I just keep it at 20" and once I am about 4 mins from the field, I start reducing power at 1"/min. This puts me in the circuit at 16-17" MP and also gets the speed down quite quickly once I start to level out. All temps stay put and I still get a good 150-160kt ground speed during the descend.

Quote: Cruiser you don't say which one was changing (to cause the difference) ? My peak is around 1470°F so I am guessing your No. 2 was dropping in temp? Or it was the other way (No. 1 was increasing) ? If your EGT is high, that usually means an increase of air or reduction of fuel (leaner) mixture. It might be a bad plug or intake air leak. If your EGT is low, that usually means less air and more fuel (richer) mixture. Intake valve or compression issues are common.

I did a two hour flight back home this morning and with about 40 minutes remaining, a rise in the EGT difference got my attention. I was cruising at 9500', WOT, 50 deg ROP, 2400rpm - EGT difference is normally around 100 deg. I noticed it increasing to 120 deg and I kept my eye on it. After a while it increased some more to 130 deg. I started playing around with the mixture a little with no relevant result on the span itself so I performed a complete lean find procedure on the JPI setting the mixture at 75 deg ROP. There was no real change and after a while, the difference increased some more to 140 deg. I played around with the mixture some more and eventually set it to 100 deg ROP - again using the JPI lean find. Once again, there was no change and it rather increased to 150 deg. During all this, the CHT's stayed put at around 310-342 deg and fuel flows were just over 9 gal at 50 deg ROP and 10 at 100 ROP. When I started my descend, the difference was 170 deg and it stayed there until I reduced power approaching the circuit. The highest EGT (cyl no 1) was between 1370-1400 deg depending on the mixture setting and the lowest EGT (cyl no 2) was at around 1260 deg. With every change in mixture setting, both no 3 and 4 cylinders' EGT were very quick and responsive, but no's 1 and 2 were rather slow and more stationary. For the first time in the 18 odd hours flown after the last annual, the oil temp also ran about 20 deg higher than usual, but as I'm still using the stock analogue oil temp gauge, I don't worry too much about that. Do I have reason to worry or not? I would appreciate any advice.

I also use an EDM 700 with both EGT and CHT probes on all the cylinders. My no 3 cylinder also runs the highest but in the cruise it usually never goes higher than 345 deg. At WOT, 2500 rpm it goes up to about 360 deg while the others are all between 315 and 335 deg. I haven't really done a gross weight climb on a very hot day as I only had the EDM installed about 3 months ago. I'll let you know what it does when I've tested that.

Congratulations - Wish you many happy hours in your Mooney. The long way around the fuel burn issue is to top up your tanks and do all taxiing, etc on the one. Change over to the other just before take off and do the take off and climb on that tank while timing. Once you level out, stop the time and change over to the other tank. When back on the ground, you fill the timed tank and you'll get the answer to your airplanes fuel burn in the climb. Next time around, you can time the other tank in the cruise to determine that fuel burn as well and you can do the same for descend. Regarding the dipstick, I emptied my tanks completely and then started filling them with 5 gal at a time while calibrating my dipstick. It's true that the dipstick cannot measure 5 gals or less due to the angle, but who wants to fly with that little amount of fuel anyway. The nice thing is that your fuel flow computer cannot measure leaks or evaporation when the airplane has been sitting for a while, but the dipstick can and sometimes, you will find it more accurate than the computer. Regarding the leaning, I lean according to what my CHT's and EGT's are telling me. I mainly operate from 4000 feet but even when I fly from the coast, I'll take off fully rich and then I'll keep the hottest EGT around 1250 - 1300 deg and I never let the hottest CHT go higher than 380 deg. If I have trouble with the CHT wanting to go up to 400 deg, like on a hot day, I immediately trade ROC for some additional airspeed.

I also think about other airplanes now and then and then I go sit down to do the maths. And everytime, the answer is the same. There are very few aircraft that beats even my M20F when it comes to economics - not even mentioning the M20J. So I now keep thinking about a J and don't think that's too bad - why, I'm at least staying in the family.

Quote: podair Thanks. Which one did you fit? Lasar? Is a 30-40 F drop feasible?