Rustler

Amelia-- Having just gone back and read your posts in this thread, I begin to wonder if you've got an electrical problem that is not specific to one instrument. Could you have a ground that is misbehaving? Perhaps a voltage spike now and then? A voltage regulator that's going south? A loose wire somewhere causing a short? It is all just too suspiciously focused on general electrical maladies to be coincidental in my mind, particularly since you're now seeing system-wide goblins. Your last post sounded like you're beginning to focus on the same thing.

Matt-- I purchased my '80 "J" from Jimmy/AAA in October, and for my money, you couldn't be dealing with a better group. They know what they're talking about, and you can trust what they say. I also second the comment about Barron Thomas. I had a really bad experience with him and, like other posters, won't even read his ads. Michael

The order is in and the down payment made. Engine: IO360 A3B6 Mags: Bendix Pistons: Lycoming rebarreled and nickeled by ECI Should take 4-5 weeks; I'm not in any great hurry but am getting excited. We're also going to install an AirWolf wet vacuum pump and their associated oil separator. I had one on my former airplane and found it to be a reliable piece of quality equipment. Additionally, I'll overhaul the oil cooler or purchase a new one. I'm using the SkyTec starter I already have. The issue of the roller tappets was a significant one, but I decided against it for my purposes. The idea that the roller engine will probably be a selling point in the future might well be correct, but my reason for doing this is to have an engine behind which I can fly with comfort and trust at a reasonable price. I think I've done that. Like the rest of you, I've watched the development of the IO390 with great interest but didn't think the wait was worth it, and the price didn't recommend it for 3-5 knots and increased fuel consumption. The LoPresti cowl is a real question. I had one on my Grumman Cheetah and didn't notice any particular speed increase; I did notice improved cooling. Gotta say it looked great. The biggest improvement on the Grumman was the PowerFlow; it significantly improved climb. I do not hear great things about it on the Mooney, however.

Quote: mooniac58 Perhaps with this and a LowPresti cowling I could actually get the 172 KTAS that Mooney claimed the M20J 201 could do?

Quote: N57039 . . . .<snip> If you have a Mooney with an IO360A3B6 Lycoming you can't have ECI cylinders. You can't have the FAA AD action problem on your cylinders. Western Skyways can't be supplying what they offered the OP. What am I missing here?

Quote: Cruiser one more thing to consider. ALL factory engines now come with roller tappets. If you get the FREM it will have roller tappets. If you get a field overhaul it will not have them.

Jim-- The benefit I see to the EMI cylinders is the nickel-alloy bore treatment. When the cylinder walls are treated, you never have any rust form there. It will still form other places, but not on the cylinder walls, a usual place to find it if one hasn't used the engine for prolonged periods.I also have an A&P friend who works at their destruction lab in New Braunfels, TX, and I have been impressed by the thoroughness of their testing. I have no problems with Lycoming, either. Both are good cylinders and probably of equal quality. Here's a link to what ECI says: http://www.eci.aero/pages/services_advantage.aspx Another consideration, I think, is resale. Potential buyers would usually be more comfortable with the ECIs and the nickel process than plain jugs, whether or not the reasoning is sound. Who knows, I just might have to move up to a Bravo or an Encore in a couple years.

Western Skyways, so far, has been a pleasure to deal with. Very straight forward, thoughtful, and quite forthcoming with reasons for recommendations. They also get top ratings from All American Aircraft, from whom I purchased the airplane. There is no core-differential charge. The overhaul would be the same with my A3B6D as with their A3B6. The up charge for new cylinders (Lycomings or ECIs) vs. remanufactured ECIs with new barrels is $1800. I get my choice of Slicks or Bendix; my A&P likes Bendix. At this juncture, I'm pretty much convinced that the A3B6 is the way to go, with Bendix induction mags, not the shower of sparks. ECI cylinders. I priced Lycoming factory rebuilds, the "0" hour ones, and that tab came to around $31,000 total. The Western Skyways ends up in the neighborhood of $22K. Big difference. Thanks to airkraft for the specific information. It coincides with several others I've discussed this with. Thanks to all for the advice and information.

The facts: 1980 M20 J, IO360 A3B6D, 1870 hrs TTAF/E, never topped The proposal: Purchase an IO360 A3B6, freshly overhauled by Western Skyways. I don't know how many hours on this engine's case. New ECI nickeled cylinders. Usual accessories, my SkyTech starter. The questions: 1) What are folks' experiences with Western Skyways? 2) Are there any problems upgrading the engine to the true dual-mag A3B6? 3) Are there any suggestions for making this an easy transition? [i sure will save down time by having the new engine delivered before taking out the old one, I think.] 4) Any ideas in general? Thanks for your help.

Today's update. MT-USA in Florida has one. Cost breakdown as follows. Prop $9500; Spinner ass'y $1250 ($10,750) If shipped: $300 crate + shipping to your location. Weight: 46# w/spinner Big difference from what I was quoted by Flight Resource.

Thanks, Knute, and welcome! The price quote I got was from Flight Resource Center, Gloomer, WI, on the 14th. I don't know what euro/dollar rate it reflected. I still like the idea that wood doesn't set up harmonics, hence vibration. My current prop id down about .01 ips, so I'm OK there.

He didn't discourage a 2-blade, just that one. He also didn't encourage the 3-blade, just indicated what he thought. We have had a Mooney owner on our field remove the 3-blade that his plane had on it when purchased, replacing it with an original 2-blade, which gives me pause. For now, I think I'm leaving well enough alone. If I continue to have problems with the blade seals leaking, then that will be another story.

Just had that conversation with a fellow at San Antonio Propeller this morning. I'm having to have the prop-blade seals replaced on my McCauley and asked about both the scimitar and the Hartzell 3-blade. He didn't recommend the scimitar because he said they have experienced vibration on C-182 installations. I don't know exactly how that relates to Mooneys, but that was the gist of that conversation. He did recommend the Hartzell 3-blade, however. They'll sell one for $8900 and give you ~1 AMU for you old prop. The weight difference is 17-19#.

Accdording to the conversation I had yesterday, they have to be special-ordered from Germany. 3-5 weeks or more lead time. That means to me that they aren't selling many.

The basic prop is ~12.5 AMU. It can come to you two ways: assembled, crated, and shipped in a wooden container from Germany, or in pieces and shipped to a distributor near you, there to be assembled and installed. There are shipping and crating expenses either route you choose; there are assembly charges the latter route. It comes out to be around 14AMU. It comes with STC, no field approval necessary.

The problem, all other issues aside, is the price. I called today, and they're great to chat with on the phone; but the bottom line is that the MT prop for a J model is going to run in the neighborhood of $14,000 + by the time it is installed. I'm sure they're great, but it is very difficult to justify that much expense, especially when the McCauley drags that airplane along at only 2-3 knots less than the 3-blade. Thanks for the responses.

As I read it, the STC exists, so that shouldn't be a problem. What I'm interested in is anyone's experience with the prop. The reason this is on my mind is that my local Mooney shop grumbles about 3-bladed props, as well as PowerFlow exhausts. My experience with the latter has been excellent, so I'm really curious about the prop. It just seems intuitive that the lower weight up front would be a plus, and it is my understanding that climb is enhanced with the 3-blade.

Has anyone had experience with MT Propellers' 3-blade composite on a J model? I am getting closer to overhaul time and have wondered if that prop might not be a good addition to a new engine. Thanks.

Try 721nm in 4:15 on 38gal in a J.

Docket-- That seems high to me. I just looked at Gulf Coast Avionics, and they advertise ~$14,196 installed in production aircraft. I just had a 430W and a Century GPSS installed in my '80 201 locally (McKee Avionics, San Marcos), and the total cost was $12,500. The labor for both units' installation should be almost the same. I already had the appropriate coax cable, so that wasn't included, but I think they have to remove the headliner to install the cable required for WAAS capability, slightly increasing the labor.

Quote: harm38lw I am a new guy looking for a M20J-201 if anyone has thoughts, please let me know. Ozark2000@msn.com Thanks lwh

I'll say there's more of a story. Try this: #FAA1 Accident/Incident Occurred on: 1997-09-20 Narrative: (-16) A POORLY PLANNED AND EXECUTED LANDING APPROACH RESULTED IN A PORPOISE LANDING. THE PILOT ATTEMPTED TO ABORT THE LANDING, BUT WAS UNSUCCESSFUL. THE AIRCRAFT STALLED, LANDED HARD AND VEERED OFF THE RUNWAY. DAMAGE WAS SUSTAINED BY THE ENGINE, PROP, FORWARD FUSELAGE AND NOSE LANDING GEAR. #FAA2 Accident/Incident Occurred on: 1998-02-06 Narrative: NARRATIVE: AIRCRAFT STRUCK DEER ON THE RUNWAY AFTER LANDING. #FAA3 Accident/Incident Occurred on: 2006-06-06 Narrative: (-23) ON 06/06/2006 APPROXIMATELY 1130 MDT, A MOONEY M-20-M (N9140Z) SUSTAINED MINOR DAMAGE DURING AN ABORTED LANDING AND GO-AROUND AT THE DOUBLE EAGLE II (AEG), ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87120. THE AIRCRAFT WAS REGISTERED TO AND OPERATED BY THE PILOT ^PRIVACY DATA OMITTED^ UNDER 14 CFR PART 91 ON A PERSONAL FLIGHT WHEN THE INCIDENT OCCURRED. VISUAL METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS PREVAILED AND NO FLIGHT PLAN HAD BEEN FILED FOR THE FLIGHT THAT HAD ORIGINATED FROM THE DOUBLE EAGLE II AIRPORT AT 1000 MDT. NEITHER THE OWNER/PILOT NOR HIS PASSENGER SUSTAINED ANY INJURIES.

I have found over the years that if I wax the airplane once a year with a high-grade paste wax (like Meguire's) and buff it thoroughly, I have no problem keeping stuff off it. It is a lot of work but worth it. When I return from a trip, I simply spray the leading edges of the wing and horizontal stabilizers and the area around the cowling using a small spray bottle of water; I leave it on the plane as I walk around, then wipe it and the bugs off when I get back to where I started. We have some pretty serious bugs here in Texas, and I never have any problem whatsoever. Someone gave me some super polymer stuff once, guaranteed to rejuvinate the paint (and maybe the pilot), but it was disappointing. Looked good for a bit, but it didn't begin to last like the Meguire's. I second JimR's suggestion about the cover. At least in the Southwest, it will save interiors and avionics.

Joe-- Take a look here for a similar discussion amongst Piper owners: http://forums.piperowner.org/read/2/97893 It may not answer all your questions, but it should help some.

Garmin, right now, is offering a $1000 trade-in allowance for any of the Apollo GX line (50, 55, 60) when you purchase a 430/530.