Seanhoya

Someone asked an important question - what have you smashed with your Johnson bar? My thumb, repeatedly... So I wear flight gloves.... That is my only complaint about the system - that if you get rushed, there is a chance you are going to bleed. Somebody else mentioned the passenger seatbelt releasing - I laughed and laughed! Yes - this happens all the time! Sean 1968 Mooney M20G

Ladies and Gents, I just wanted to pass along that I finally found a folding bicycle which fits in my 1968 Mooney M20G luggage compartment, and through the hatch to boot! It is a Novara Flyby from REI. You only have to take off the saddle to easily pass the bike through the luggage hatch. The bike rides nicely to about 20 mph. They cost around $600. I used it to commute from Linden (KLDJ) to the New Jersey Railroad terminal, which I took into Manhattan every weekend for the first half of this year. Anyhow - I have attached some photos. I know that there are other pilots out there who have thought about this, but sizing it difficult, so I hope this helps! Clear skies! Sean

Personally, I don't land at fields less than 2000 feet... So let me start by saying that I don't recommend that you do what you are planning to do. That being said, there are a few things that you can do to stack the odds in your favor. Shoot for the dirt before the prepared surface. Start your flare over the dirt to touch down right at the beginning of the prepared surface. Check the stall speed of your aircraft similarly loaded. Multiply times 1.3. You will probably come up with a final approach speed of 70-72 MPH. MAINTAIN THIS SPEED! if you come in hot, go around. Determine a point on the grass that you will go around at if you haven't touched down yet, and go around! Make sure to dump flaps immediately upon touchdown for maximum breaking. Make sure your breaks are good. If you haven't gathered this already... What you are trying to do is a serious undertaking. Again, I recommend that you follow the good advice above and come up with an alternative plan. Sorry to be a kill-joy, but Mooneys like to float and aren't known for great short field performance. Trying to eak-out short field performance takes practice. Best not to do this with passengers. Also, if you follow the POH, you are going to come in hot (too fast) and will likely run of the end of a 1500 for strip. Of course, it is possible based on the numbers, but i wouldn't tempt fate... Good luck, and let us know what you decide! Sean

What you get out of fuel injection that we don't get with carbuerated engines is precision, and often also an engine monitor. I have a standard Mooney mixture control, which is not a vernier control like a Cessna. So I lean by pulling the mixture control until I feel engine roughness, and then backing off about an inch. This is a far cry from the level of precision you get out of a fuel injected engine with an engine monitor/analyzer.

I echo the previous comments. I flew up to North Tahoe years ago in my Mooney M20G and did some touch-and-gos there. My main problem there with a 8500' DA was cooling - I was only looking at 200 FPM departures, and well over 450 degrees CHT (480, in fact) until I leveled off. In terms of cruise, I spent four hours at 12,500' without O2 on a trip across America, and had a splitting headache afterwords. Later, I had a possible hypoxic/hyperventilation episode at 12,500' without O2, and ever since, I have decided to fly with O2 at 8000' and above - period. I have a portable bottle I fly with, and I arrive so much more refreshed on long cross-countries. For what its worth, the military requires O2 above 10,000', and even the civilian recommendation is to use it above 5000' during night-time flying. Because I am the single point of failure in the aircraft (I mostly fly alone), I think that it is worth the investment to keep me alert, and I contend that putting on O2 gives me a noticeable improvement in alertness even after about an hour at 8,000'. In terms of max altitude, I think 12,500' or 13,500' is as high as I have ever gone, but like everyone has mentioned, it is the up and down-drafts that scare me the most and keep me visual in those conditions. Another time, departing from Burlington, Vermont, I had an uncommanded 200 FPM decent climbing through 8000' because the downdraft exceeded my climb rate, and that was in IMC. I recognize that other pilots fly safely higher, but my decision is that the plane loves to fly between 6,000' and 8,000', and my body prefers lower altitudes, so that is where I spend 99% of my time. Shoe

Fellow Mooniacs! I fly a 1968 G model out of Potomac Airfield in Marlyand. I have owned this airplane for six years now and have flown across the US a number of times. I am looking for a willing partner to do recurrency flights every two weeks: 1. VFR/EPs 2. Instrument 3. Night The idea is that every two weeks, we fly together for two hours on a rotating six week schedule. The first hour, I fly left seat. The second hour, you fly left seat, so that we can both maintain currency while avoiding the expense of an instructor. We could share aircraft, or alternate aircraft - I am open to suggestions. But the idea is to do regular recurrency flights with a fellow Mooney pilot to increase safety and proficiency. I fly regularly up and down the East Coast, and just got back from a trip to Texas. But recurrency has always been an issue, and especially so for IFR and night flying. Any takers? I can fly anywhere in the DC/Baltimore/perhaps even lower Pennsylvania/Upper Virginia areas. Sean

Based on the variety of replies, it appears that above 400 Degree CHT in a vintage, carbuerated Mooney is perhaps more common than I realized. Let's look at what I have done to decrease CHT and increase cooling in my 1968 G Model: 1. Installed LASAR cowl mod 2. Rebuit carbuerator 3. Checked timing 4. Checked doghouse 5. Increased airspeed in climb 6. Kept throttle full open with no change in results And I still have over 400 Degrees on #3 cylinder in the summer. Of note, once I transition to the 120 MPH climb, my CHT drops precipitously, so it is obvious that the engine is cooling properly in the climb... I will have my mechanic re-check the doghouse and sway out probes. I don't think that this is going to produce the desire effect, though. Has anybody ever re-located their oil cooler or added a second one to fix this problem? Clear Skies! Sean

James - I have has precisely the same thought-process. I never worried about this issue until I got an Aerospace Logic 4-probe CHT sensor and could see what was happening in my engine. Maybe what has changed is not the engine temp - maybe it is my knowledge of the temp! I climb at 100 MPH (About Vy) until 1000', and then at 120 MPH (basically the cowl on the horizon). I keep full throttle until 1000', then 25" and 2500 RPM. I don't know which cylinder is hottest, but I seem to remember #3. I will check the next time I fly. My 1968 M20G is a carbuerated model and the cowl flaps are fixed. On the day in question, I departed from Greensville, SC in the afternoon. It must have been 90 plus degrees out. I lifted off, and immediately went to 120 MPH and pulled up the flaps - I know, this isn't recommended, but I wanted to see if aggressive flying helped. It didn't. One cylinder stayed about 400 degrees for 5 minutes - I think it was #3. I will ask the guys at Air Mods in Jersey what they think during my annual, but this isn't until November. In any case, the plane is flying great, I just don't like to see these high numbers, and yes - OAT matters immensely. I hadn't seen over 400 degrees all winter, and I did a lot of flying. I am using 100W oil - should this matter? Sean

Ladies and Gents, I have a recurring problem in the summer that I have not been able to crack. I have high CHTs on takeoff. Yesterday I got up to 413 or so on one cylinder for about 5 minutes before it cooled off. I normally run around 350-360 each cylinder in cruise flight. But on hot, high DA days, there seems to be nothing that I can do to cool down the engine - I even pulled flaps early and climbed at 120 MPH to try to increase engine cooling. But still the high CHTs. I have brought this up on the forum before, but I still have this problem. I installed the LASAR cowl modification - this did nothing to cool my engine. I rebuild the oil cooler - this did nothing. I had my mechanic check the baffling - this did nothing. It seems like Mooney recognized that this was a problem - my 1968 POH tells me that I should run full rich on the ground for engine cooling - they didn't really think about how bad this would fowl the plugs, though. Are high CHTs on takeoff in the summer indicative of a greater engine problem? What else can I do? Clear Skies! Sean

Gents, Well, I wouldn't disagree with all of the previous comments, but I might add that I actually have had an airspeed indicator which was indicating 10 knots slow. And considering that the pitot-static check is only done on a 2-year basis, and isn't part of the annual, why would we rush to rule out this as a possibility? LevelWing dude, the indications that I had were abnormally long landing rolls and screeching tires. Considering that I was landing at Freeway Airport in Maryland, which has claimed many a Mooney during takeoff and landing, I was lucky that I had good airspeed control, even if it meant that I was landing fast. Now, I didn't have the control problems that you were mentioning in terms of squirliness, which would add weight to the previous arguments regarding the nose gear. For what its worth, I think that the nose gear probably is the culprit. But you initial instinct regarding airspeed is reasonable, even if the nose-gear turns out to be the culprit. When was the last Pitot-Static done? Sean

Hmmm.... Well for me, the situational awareness that an IFR approved gps brings to the cockpit is unbeatable. Now, that doesn't mean that I don't train to do even NDB approaches and timed compass card turns. No, I train to them all regularly. But to deny the utility of IFR approved GPS is somewhat absurd.

From a safety perspective, the best thing that I have done with my '68 M20G is to add a GNS430W. I would prioritize that over a paint job, unless you are keeping the Mooney outside on a tie-down. Just a thought.... FYI, I also recently repainted my Mooney and paid $15,000, and I think that it was worth every penny. Price masters when it comes to painting.... Clear Skies! Sean

Kurt - Good luck today! I am not sure where you are, but the cold weather we have been experiencing back East makes for some short takeoff rolls and epic climb rates. While I always refer to the POH, the age of our airframes, state of the engines, and general operator error always add a bit of fudge-factor to these calculations. As technique only, and because I don't have any reason to compel me to do otherwise, I don't land on runways that are less than 2000 feet in my 1968 M20G. In the summer, I will use a good portion of that distance to takeoff. My POH lacks emergency procedures, so to make up for it, I refer to my aftermarket checklist. In cases where you lack factory provided information, the advice offered above is sound in terms of making decisions for your particular airframe. Good luck again! Sean

Rockydoc - Starting an O-360s can be tricky. Bob has some good advice, but I would like to add that starting a carbuerated engine requires that you learn the temper of your specific engine and carbuerator - it is a bit different from aircraft to aircraft. In fact, the best advice I ever got about starting my Mooney came from my father, based on his experience starting a '53 Chevy growing up. He actually deserves the credit for us starting on a cold morning recently in Charlotte, NC, and being able to complete our cross country adventure (hint - if it is really cold, don't worry about flooding a cold engine. Repeat the standard procedure until it starts, and maybe start with four pumps of the throttle, vice three). Long story short - I have this problem all the time, dude, and especially so in cold weather on hot engine starts. I have posted the POH procedure below, and it works. It basically involves putting the throttle full forward, the mixture at idle, and no fuel pump, and cranking until the engine turns over. Once it turns over, it takes some quick hands to retard the throttle, then enrichen the fuel mixture. Honestly, I have never turned the fuel pump on at that point. Here's the clincher - if you run down your battery, don't give up. Turn off all loads, and wait a minute or two. Then turn the prop over once. If the prop has some "spring" to it, that means that it is actually igniting, and it is a great indication that you have flooded the engine. Keep this up three or four times, and the engine will start. A word about hot starts - no fuel pump, one pump of the throttle, and keep the mixture leaned like you do on the ground to start. If this doesn't work on the first try, you have already flooded the engine. Clear skies! Sean From 1968 G Model POH, Page 3-8: Flooded Engine Clearing Throttle - Full Open Mixture - Idle Cutoff Electric Fuel Pump - Off Ignition - Turn to Start and Press Forward Throttle - Retard when engine starts Mixture Control - Open slowly to full rich Electric Fuel Pump - On

- a - , Thanks for the advice on the battery - I actually traded it out while in Dallas, TX - couldn't get the engine to turn over in the cold weather. I have ordered an alternate static valve kit from Mooney - hope this does the trick. There is also a Service Instruction from 1979 that discusses the very problem that I had (m20-43). Cheers, Sean

Thanks for the info on the o-ring, I may have to replace the valve entirely - the re-packing didn't work. Yes - I meant an automatic alternate source. I had never seen it either until I bought the plane. I am glad to hear that you have a manual alternate static - I will be going that direction. Sean

Gents, I had a static-system blockage at 4000' today that also played havoc with my airspeed indication on descent. It was -10 Degrees Celsius at altitude, and I think that I probably have water in my static system, and the alternate static port is probably broken. Has anyone ever traded out their "automatic" alternate static-air for a manual type? Also, has anyone else had problems with the static drain in the belly of the aircraft? I can't seem to get the drain to pass the static check, even after having re-packed it. So my mechanics bypassed the drain. Maybe this wasn't a big deal in California, but it had serious consequences in the North East. I plan to have the drain re-packed and re-connected, but I don't know if that will solve the problem - I think that I am going to get another static leak. Any recommendations? I have had two pitot-statics in the last 18 months, and I am confident that the instruments are good, it is simply an issue with the drain and now water in the lines in -10 Degree Celcius weather. Appreciate any and all advice. Sean

Gents, An update - oil pressure works fine, it is oil temp and right and left fuel which all peg. I am sending the unit to Keystone Instruments in Pennsylvania to see what they can do with it. Will let you know how it turns out. Sean

Gents, Thanks for your support - a little more amplifying information: 1. Yes - it is the 6-pack cluster. My mechanic has run a new ground twice, consulted the mechanic's manual (the Lasar aftermarket one), and found a couple of peculiarities: A. The Amp meter is working fine and apparently is grounded to the Starter Solonoid - it is the only one of six instruments which is grounded in this way. B. The fuel gauges are supposed to have their own ground (according to the manual), but they don't. They peg, and then settle somewhere above empty after the power is turned off. C. The oil temp gauge pegs, then settles around 50 -80 degrees. I had a similar problem before with the CHT sensor, and decided to replace it with a Aerospace Logic 4-probe CHT sensor. My mechanic is concerned that one of the resistors on the circuit board behind the 6-pack is fried, so he wants to have someone look at it. Any recommendations out there? V/R, Sean

Gents, Most of you who have been following the Vintage Mooney Forum have seen my posts now and again, and some of you might have looked up my profile and realized that I have been in Haiti for the last year. Well, I am going home, and my mechanic is doing my annual on my 1968 M20G which has been sitting for a year. He emailed me this morning to let me know that there is a problem with the analog gauges (I don't know which ones yet - I assume all). He said that whenever he turns on the Master power, the gauges all peg, and stick there. He says that he has trouble-shot the problem, and the problem lies in the Instrument cluster circuit board. He is having problems finding someone who works on this Weston part (frankly, I am not familiar with it). I think that I have had this problem before with individual analog gauges - I think that it was a short somewhere in the system. But I trust his trouble-shooting, and I would appreciate any advice on whether to buy an aftermarket part (if one exists), or other courses of action. I have replaced my CHT gauge with an aftermarket Aerospace Logic 200 series sensor, but otherwise, all of the other analog gauges remain operational (or for the moment, not operational). Thanks, Sean

Beware of the autopilot issue - expect that you will have to replace it with some variety of STEC for a minumum of $10,000. I have trouble-shot autopilot issues for years in my 1968 Mooney M20G, with only moderate success. Also beware the comment about IFR-certified. Without the autopilot, and considering the fact that the factory wing-leveler was probably removed (I forget the name of this airpump-driven system - anyone?), means that you will have to hand-fly everything. My experience is that everything that has to do with IFR significantly increases the amount of maintenance that you regularly need (maintain two radios, pitot-static, constantly rebuilding directional and turn rate gyros and attitude indicator, etc...) This all depends, however, on how demanding you are. An ADF-rebuild cost me a grand a few years back. The plane certainly looks nice, but I I would take a rebuilt panel to a nice paint job and interior any day. A nice paint job will cost you $10,000-$15,000. Interior is roughly the same. A new panel, or at least upgraded radios and maybe a GPS, will start at $15,000 up, and takes a while to make sure all the systems are working up to specifications. Just some thoughts.... FYI - I bought a similar plane years ago and absolutely love it, but just beware that it will end up costing you twice as much as you originally plan for, even if you get a deal on the original purchase! Good luck! Sean

Bob - that's an awesome panel. I don't want to know what you spent on that! How do you like Aspen's Evolution Flight Display?

Pinerunner - thanks for the article - that is really interesting, and thanks to everyone for the valuable information. In regards to the ferry tank, I am not familiar with the process - don't I need a 337 and/or field approval every time I install it and/or remove it? The big issue for me is that I should be able to save 2-3 hours by flying non-stop, but I intend to take a route over the Bahamas - not a straight-line flight.

Sabremech, Point well taken. I am just concerned that we don't give advice to a new Mooney owner which may get him or her in trouble because their situation is different than ours. I think that you put it well - "The reasoning behind carb heat on throughout landing is that it both the worst possible place for carb ice to bite you." Given the consequences, I think that it is better to error on over-application than the opposite. If his engine is running too rough, it is probably because the fuel mixture is too rich. The correction for this is to have a mechanic adjust the engine, not to rule out the use of Carb Heat entirely. I think that we probably are in agreement on this point. Sorry for the lecture.

Keep in mind that a simple Garmin 430W upgrade will cost at least $10,000. Any panel upgrades will be prohibitively expensive. I paid around $48,000 for my 1968 M20G about four years ago before the market crashed. I have made quite a few upgrades to the whole plane, and paid an arm and a leg for everything. Recently, I got the plane painted for $15,000, which was worth the awesome job I got. An F model is good because you get the fuel injected engine. Try out all avionics in flight. Old radios may be fine (I still use a KING KX-170 - which is rock-solid), but you will definitely want to add a GPS of some sort, which will include adding a new CDI. Consider also trading out old audio panels - this helps with overall sound quality.