garytex

Marauder & Ryoder Ain't it the truth

Rob, I think you may very well be right, and that it is insane that Lyc has no choke spec. and 15 is stupid tight. There is lots of room for foul language in this one. You too Mike, I don't wanna go, I don't heal up as well now, I see no need to seek additional excitement. OK, so here's the plan. I'm too chicken to fly it, so we're going to overhaul the old cyls. and run it, see if the engine is still tight. If so, total it, (which I can do as it has hail damage: this whole nonsense started because the engine was talking to me, and I wanted to make sure all was ok before I went to paint. Two cyls failed the wobble test) if not, take it to paint.

One of the very last DC3 freight guys I knew ran hundred low lead in one tank for takeoff and climb, car gas in the other tank for cruise. And I put about 700 hours on a Cessna 170, C-145 engine which has 7.5 to 1 compression ratio on car gas in the days before it was ruined with alcohol. It ran fine, and only had gravity flow head pressure. I watched it close for vapor lock but never experienced it. Occasionally I would also get a tank of hundred low lead and look pretty hard at the EGT's to see if I could determine if there were any volatility differences. Found none. In the future, if alcohol free gas became available in Texas, and there was an STC, cargas might be the answer to some future kind of hundred low lead loss for us.

Brand spanking new Lycoming angle valve kits, which are salt bath nitrided (Melonited) with15 thousands choke, (which is considered excessive, however LYC has NO spec for choke on assembled new cyls.) Overhaulers have a spec for overhauled cyls, -- 8 to 10 thou choke. The top and bottom ring end gap clearances measured and in spec. Which BTW are 7.5 thou at the top, and 45 to 55 thou at the bottom.

Yeah, the smoking gun points to the cyls. I think that just flying it may be the thing to do. The damn thing still scares me. I think that its because the times I have been truly screwed by a motor/vehicle/boat, in the post mortem it was always discovered that there was more than one thing wrong. I've had to walk miles through the dark through known man-eater territory on top of smokinging hot lion tracks in Tanzania, been trapped offshore, 96 miles offshore in a 23 foot boat, had to walk miles back to the ranch house in 100df temps when recalcitrant engines wouldn't run. And each time, thought "don't do that sort of stupid crap ever again" There'se the rub. Thank you all for your expertise Gary

M20DOC So that surface would be floated on an oil film when the pressure is up, with the engine running, and not after shutdown. So then why would the engine turn easy cold? Not to say that disproves the pinched bearing theory, as those symptoms are what led the engine overhaulers to both say "pinched/cocked bearing". How would stress there shorten crank endplay. I certainly have almost none. I'm really bamboozled about this one, and not sure I'm willing to pay either of the prices to get to the bottom of it. I can go fly the airplane, and see if it fails or i can split the case. The chicken way out of this one is to total the plane and go shopping, but then I give up a particularly fast airframe, and have to navigate all the 50 year old airframe purchase issues.

Piloto, thanks for weighing in, the out of round cylinder ran very hot, it's replacement runs with the rest of the cylinders. Ring end gap at the top and the bottoms of the cylinders are within spec. Oil pressure seems about right.

Damn!

Thank you all for posting, that's not just a pro forma thank you, I really appreciate it. The prop is only hard to turn when the engine is hot. Go, yeah that differential expansion is certainly one of the suspects. And yes you sure can feel a couple of thousands. You don't really so much feel it rather the deceleration of the prop as it starts and mostly stops. Hartsell says that the 15 or 20 pounds of pressure we can put on the base of the prop can damage it, I think they are per usual FOS about that, slow go push and pull on your prop bases, you'll feel it go clump clump back-and-forth . Mike, the spun or possibly slightly cocked main bearing is the Monster Under the Bed that I have been worrying about for a couple of weeks. My mechanic only did one jug at a time, but my understanding is that on relatively high time engines and mine has 1500 hrs. it's still possible. Another part of the issue is my airplane got hailed out and if I wanted to I could total it, and I would have 55 gees to go buy another airplane. So if I got a spun bearing I definitely want to total it. But buying another 50-year-old airplane is a fairly scary proposition and this is the devil that I know, and have spent a bunch money bringing up to standard . N201 That's exactly what it feels like, really hard to get the first little clunk and then slightly easier. But nowhere near as easy or as much and play as is usual, and I wandered around the airport pushing and pulling on the propellers of friends airplanes for a while Yes Clarence, i've been wondering about both a pinch bearing , and a cock bearing , and a bearing that got loose if/when the bearing preload was lost. I flew the engine six hours with the outof round jug, There's no metal in the filter after six hours The oil filter held a tiny little bit of iron powder and a very few little flakes of aluminum. No copper, ( thrust bearing )and oil analysis did not show high tin levels which I would expect out of a bearing. I'm bamboozled, thinking that I should suspect these over choked jugs to be the culprit, but really afraid of a spun bearing . 601rx That's a very interesting observation about the difference between torqued and untorked through bolts. As I was considering the different diagnostic tools one of them was to try minimum core versus maximum torque and see how it's fun. The other one was to work over the two original jugs, ( they failed the wobble test, one of had 40 Thousand slop in the valve to valve guide clearance ) put them back on and see how it did. But that's about a three to $4000 test and I'm not sure I want to do it. I'm really thinking I'm going to go fly around for a while, stay damn close to an airport, and see what happens. Gary

I'm trying to understand what a baseline is for crank endplay on the IO 360s I just put two new cyl. assemblies on, and the engine has gotten very tight to turn when hot after shutdown . Cool it turns normally. Also it takes a massive effort and several tries to get a very small movement, maybe one or two thousandths, little clunk, clunk out of the prop as you push and pull on it. There have been whispers of possible main bearing or thrust bearing problems resulting from lost bearing preload during the cylinder changes as a possibility, said whispers having come from some very smart old engine geezers. I've also heard from a guy with a factory new engine experience the exact same symptoms. There's no metal in the filter and analysis indicates normal break-in wear. Could some of you share with me what your crank and play feels like when you push and pull on the propeller, how much movement you think you get, how hard you have to pull back-and-forth on it to get that movement, please? i'd really rather not put the two old jugs back on and/or split the case to try to figure out what's going on with this motor, and I'm thinking about flying it some this weekend, but a little worried, if I really do have a bearing problem that would stink. I intend to circle over the airport with my son's skateboard helmet on. :-) Thanks everybody, Gary

And then God created the Cessna 180.

I recently purchased two new Lycoming cylinder kit's. One ran very very hot 400 to 430°F. Turned out it was 6 thousands out of round, and had 15 thousands choke. Turns out Lycoming has no spec for choke on those cylinders. Although all cylinder rebuilders think that 8 to 10 thousands's is where it should be. I paid them for a third cylinder, it runs OK and theoretically they will credit me back for the bad cylinder and pay some amount of money to my mechanic for changing the cylinder . Jetdriven, sorry I couldn't respond to your PM something wrong with my iPhone to blog connection. Besides which, everybody should be watching for out of round cylinders, this is current production stuff. I have some other things I'd like to visit with you about. Please call me when you have a moment. 512-923-1904 Thanks, Gary

Currently not an issue, but the conversation is interesting as a prelude to a possible true unavailability of 100LL. Sorting out some of the possibilities, and considering the possible consequences is a good mental exercise.

Dr. Bill, I suspect it was something like that, the contact cleaner flushed quite a bit of dust out of the unit and I blew it out with compressed air and then, worked fine, I hope it'll last a long time

Oops, the AOPA rep

Talked to the sales rep a couple of days ago she says this is getting lost in the furor over here in 3-D and continuing funding issue for Congress not to get our hopes up. For me this is much more important than either of those issues

Takair I was going to open one up & see the guts, but the contact cleaner worked, so next time. I also have been busy with a lyc defective new cyl kit, so that shortened my tinkering horizons. I am about to post re the cyl kit, it is an interesting story.

I had reason to wear a helmet on a repositioning flight, used my son's skateboard helmet. Halo's worked great under the helmet. That was the first time I ever flew wearing a Death's Head decal. :-)

Yes Sabremechanic, I noticed that, and wondered. One of the "no-worke" ones came from a junkyard. I just thought that with the thousands of these things around that a reasonable replacement would be around. I mean, they get flipped at every walk around, just that alone is many cycles. In the interim I was in the workroom, and a little contact cleaner seems to have done the trick. But i'm still surprised that there is no reasonable replacement for such an ubiquitous part at such an iniquitous price. Gary

Whew! 67F stall warning lift detector switch Safe Flight Instrument Corp. part #46001 replacement cost of 1800 bucks at Spruce is the worst stupid aircraft part price i've ever seen. I wonder what Safe Flight's reasoning is? I may call them and ask come Monday. I have 2, one that will never sound the horn, one that will never stop sounding the horn. I'm going to try to fix them, but was looking for a reasonable replacement. Any ideas or reasonable work arounds? Thanks Gary

Phone call is the way to go on deals like this. I've wiggled some laws around and additionally talked to a bunch of staffers, and they all tell me that a phone call is much more effective than an email. I'll be calling tomorrow morning.

The best of both worlds is the best of both worlds. Electronic sometimes fail, and paper is a pain in the ass. I always carry some paper in my plane, and have been glad that I have done so occasionally. Additionally I defy you to slip your iPad between the side window and the plastic trim to get the sun out of your face . :-)

N6719N is correct about flying skills attained in tailwheel aircraft. They're not that tough, but you have to full stall it from an inch above the ground pointing straight down the runway and not drifting. Once acquired that's a skill that will save wear and tear on any airplane and teaches you to land precisely. Additionally it teaches speed and energy control in the approach and landing which are really important to avoid porpoising in our Mooneys. I'm absolutely certain that learning to fly in a tailwheel has helped me in my Mooney. Gary

Hank is right about California Gold, it's magic.

An F is a great airplane. Enjoy. Gary