kgbpost

Quote: Parker_Woodruff That fuel flow is much too low for an M20M.

After accumulating about 75 hrs in my new to me Bravo, here's the number I've settled into. The key is CHT. I always try to keep the engine in a range of 380-400CHT: Takeoff: 38"-2550RPM...fuel flow indicates 29gph 500' climb power: 34", then 2400rpm, lean to 23.5 gph, climb at 120KIAS, CHTs stay below 400, TIT 1400-1500. Cruise: accelerate, reduce to 30", close cowl flaps, set mixture to 19gph...let things stabilize. Now lean to 1525 TIT and note CHTs. On a hot day I may need to run 19gph to keep the hottest CHT right at 400F, which would yeild a TIT in the 1500 to 1525 range. On the other end of the spectrum...cold day, I can lean much closer to 18GPH and still maintain my hottest CHT at 400F, which would yield a TIT in the 1550-1600 range. In a strong headwind i run 32" -2400RPM and set the mixture the same way. Descent; 30"-2400RPM, push the nose over and lean a half turn for the increased cooling airflow and adjust to keep the CHTs in the 375-400F range. Notes; I burn 1 qt/10 hrs so oil changes are easy...I fill to 9 qts, when it reaches 8 on the stick I add a makeup quart, when it reaches 8 again I change it. Once oil temp has built up it runs right at 200F, even on a hot day the highest I've seen is 204F. My EGT splits run about 20, never more than 30, and no i don't have GAMIs. I've tried LOP with my EDM-830 and the engine picked up a sligth stumble as I neared peak TIT and it never went away even WAY lean of peak. No mas. I lean very aggressively on the ground. So much so that if you push the power forward it wont go unless I richen a turn. On takeoff crossing the holdshort line I will richen enough so the engine will accelaerate and spool the turbo...then mixture full rich... The other technique I have experimented with quite inadvertently is reduced power takeoff. Since the boost controller requires the throttle full forward i may have inadvertantly found how to fool the controller into a reduced power TO. If the prop controller is left back 1/8" or so, The engine will maintain 2500 vs 2550RPM, but the suprising thing i found is the boost controller maintained a very comfortable 36" at 2500RPM, about 90% power. Plenty of performance under most conditions. I know we don't have tables and approved procedures for RTOP at this level, but under conditions where there is performace to spare (90% of the time in my case, and I live in Denver) It is In my opinion RTOP increases safety, comfort, longevity, etc.,. I dont use this procedure as I understand it may not be legal. I don't know. I suppose it all comes down to the way the airplane is certified to be flown. That said, this airplane was certified to be operated at 1750TIT continuously, and we all know what came of that. Even with the Bmod I havent heard of anyone operating that way, but my approved AFM says do it all day long...no problem. Ya right! Note: above procedures work nicely for me. I am interested in any input regarding my procedures, I love to learn, and I welcome constructive critism. I'm simply sharing my experiences which is what has made this site valuable to me. Take it with a grain of salt. Brian

You call the Feds and you better be darn sure ready for a ramp check yourself. They don't discriminate. I think you have experienced what i would term an annoyance. Thankfully, it is considerably less frequent on the tarmac than on the freeway. That could make a great new thread though...Whats the dumbest thing you've ever seen someone do in an airplane that didn't end tragically....I once watched a guy, a CFI none the less, try to land a Supercub on the last 200' of a 4000' foot runway because the winds had come up. He ground looped it to avoid going off the end, miraculously didn't scratch a thing, and then slowly taxiied to the ramp. I didn't have the balls to go talk to him after he shut down, besides I had already pissed myself for him.

Based on my recent purchase experience with AAA I would confidently recommend them to a friend or associate. I feel a phone call would get it done if there was a problem. I respect Jimmy's decision to defend his position. I agree, this isn't a shooting gallery, and they are from Texas... I'd expect them to return fire.

Quote: Clarence Two clients with Acclaims have had failures while on approach in IMC conditions! One got red X's on the display the other got a black screen. Holy Cow! Thats not cool at all. I'd be a very P.O.d Garmin Customer, no way that should happen. That's crazy...that should be a one occurence every 100,000 flight hours type of thing.

Quote: JimR

Well as a recovering airline pilot now almost ten years removed (kinda...read on) from the industry I can tell you this. The alure of getting paid to fly has been used to gut the profession. I just for kicks in 2007 got hired as a street Captain for a start up regional subsidiary called Lynx for Frontier airlines..at the time there were few around who were qualified to occupy the Captain seat day one, right out of training, and we were flying a new at the time relatively advanced aircraft to boot - the DHC-8 Q400. So I went for it, Frontier had a good reputation at the time, it was Denver based, so what the hell. I'm not going to get into the disfuntionality of airline management, partly the reason I left the industry in the first place (America West AL, 2002...prolonged contract disputed, post 9/11 aftermath, outsourced MX, poor moral, seniority going backwards, etc......) but I was blown away by the copilots I was flying with at the startup. Given my previous experience with the industry, and having already been where all these guys dreamed of getting to, I was astounded. I flew with numerous co-pilots that carried 40k in student loan debt from ab initio training...and they were now making $1500/mo gross. How does that work? I flew with several guys and or gals that left decent careers mid-life (cops, medical professionals, etc.) and financed their flight training to 'live the dream'. It became evident to me at the time that the naivity of chasing that airline dream had given executive management a liscence to steal, and you better believe they were gonna do just that. I have a thirteen year old right now who wants to fly. I told him I will pay for his training thru his commercial pilot certificate. I have also told him that if he truly wishes to enjoy aviation to its fullest, it would behoove hime to pursue a career that would give him the opportunity to have the disposable income to fly for pleasure, like I am blessed to be able to do. I was lucky enough to have an out and have made the most of it, reality is, most don't or wont. And chances are that if you do everything right and persevere long enough to reach that Captains seat at a major and long enough yet to get off reserve and hold a descent schedule, theres a good chance the airlines have beaten the love of flying out of you by that point anyway. I would venture to say that if I polled most of my airline captain friends most would say they have discouraged their children from learning to fly as a profession, despite the state of the economy in general. Thats a very sad statement. I would also venture to say that the VAST majority of 500k Mooneys sold prior to the shutdown were sold to business interests that could make use of the depreciation. Otherwise nobody with the business accumen to be in the position to spend a half million bucks would even consider it. Its just gotten WAY out of the reach of the average Joe. If Europe is the model, than enjoy the heck out of what we have here now cuz it aint gonna get any better. We still got it good, but there are storm clouds on the horizon. I love flying my Mooney, lets hope we can continue to do it for a while longer. Ya gotta look at the bright side of life. Fly safe, Brian.

Thats a good lesson. Any type rating oral examinination begins or ends with "what's on the hot battery bus?". Electrical systems on different aircraft can vary in complexity but you always have to know whats 'hot' even with the master 'off'. It generally tends to be the stuff you really need incase of an emergency. On more complex aircraft it includes engine fire extinguishing and detection and emergency exit lighting, but it always includes cabin entry lights and instrument lighting. Mechanincs dont work on airplanes in the pitch dark, but pilots do. Youd better be able to find that switch with your eyes closed if you ever fly night or night/ifr. Flashlights never work when you need them, believe me.

Why don't you take a mini vacation to San Antonio and take a spin in 52938 with David? Its not cheap but its very nicely equipped and has a low time Western Skyways engine (very reputable shop). I looked at it back when I was shopping. Looked nice to me even though I ultimately decide to go with a Bravo. Not many 252s to choose from right now. Who knows what it could be had for, but it's been in their inventory for some time. Brian

Thanks for the info guys. I think I'm gonna call JPI on monday and ask them how they arrived at the setting my EDM-830 shipped at for %HP. I'll share my findings. On the CHT thing that makes sense...that eases my mind a bit. Brian.

Quote: RJBrown Congrats on bringing N800MS/N808MS to Colorado. I had that plane under contract in Jan of 09 and sent it to Lone Star for the pre buy. I spent a full day in Texas looking at that plane. Lone Star was great to deal with. I guess that after the seller refused to make it airworthy for me it got fixed right. I wish they had honored the sales contract I had on that plane. My loss will definitely be your gain. I think you have a winner in the Bravo. I am curious what it finally sold for. I was able talk to the person that did the engine, it was an interesting story involving lawers and insurance. It was originally 800MS then MS808 when I looked at it then back to MS800. PM me if interested in my experiance looking at your plane. Randy

I know this has been touched on earlier but what is 75% power on this engine? I am in the process of fine tuning my new EDM-830 and there is a process in the manual where I have to tell it when the engine is at 75% so it indicates properly on the EDM-830 (neat feature). I have the K factor for the fuel flow dialed in so %hp is all I have left to set up. The only factors are MP & RPM, right? Sooo...if 100% is 38"/2575, what MP equates to 75% at 2400? On another note, the rpm drop and egt rise when doing mag checks are very consistent, but...my #5 cylinder CHT runs 60-80 degrees cooler than the other 5 cylinders which are all within 10 degrees of each other. The EGT of #5 is right in the middle of the spread which is 30 degress max across all six (usually more like 20 degrees). Could the #5 CHT really be that much cooler? I'm assuming the avionics shop has the correct probes on the correct cylinders. I'm thinking probe? Thanks in advance for the help. Brian

Quote: TLSDriver

Quote: Cruiser sounds like a great airplane with a great name. Have you started an avionics upgrade or engine overhaul fund yet?

Quote: FlyingAggie

Well I just returned from our first long XC with the whole family in our new Bravo and I couldnt be happier. Mission was FTG-SJN-GYR, GYR-E23-BXK-GYR (just me for night currency), GYR-TUS-GYR, GYR-SEZ-GYR, GYR-FTG. The aircraft performed flawlessly and its opened up a whole new world of travel options for us! I purchased the aircraft from All American in SAT, and have nothing but good things to say about Jimmy and David and crew. They were honest about the aircraft's history and I looked at it with an open mind and found it to be a potentially great value. There are some benefits to a lousy economy, and bringing a Bravo down into my price range is one of them. One of the many negatives of the downturn is a lot of really nice airplanes get forgotten and sit unloved. I was carefull about this one, but seeing a HUGE annual from Lone Star Aero in the books last summer, and some hidden gems, like only 300hrs since major by a Super top-notch engine shop in California, I thought I'd put it through a prebuy. I used a local guy in SAT and visited during the inspection to supervise. There were a few minor issues we found, but otherwise it looked like Lone Stars's work the preceding summer had gotten 800MS fit for duty. We turned the prebuy into an annual and flew her home (FTG). Next stop was Alamosa, Depot Avionics, to install an EDM-830, an Aero-452 CO detector, and to remove some dead weight like the ARGUS 5000, and LORAN. I also removed the ADF, and did an airgizmo panel dock for my backup GPS onboard weather station (GPSMAP 496). We did a little custom panel with 800MS's new name engraved ("the Mooney Magic"...my daughter has exclusive naming rights to any aircraft I might aquire). We lost almost 15lbs so now we're up to 980 usefull! To my suprise all the original avoinics, AP, and radios have performed without any squacks at all! After putting about ten shakedown hours on her I put together a small squack list. One of which was major and I want to share it here. The biggest mistake I made in the prebuy was not making sure to explicitly state that the mechanic is to FILL the fuel tanks to the top to check for leaks!...I flew it home nonstop and noticed my burn was high (had topped off in SAT). I though 'okay, I'm new to the airplane, I must be imagining things'. Then I flew it again but didn't top off, didn't need to, and everything was fine...the burn was normal?!!?? Then in preperation for a longer trip I topped her off and put it in the hanger for an a.m. mission the next day...I returned to my hanger to find the right tank was missing about 8 gallons! So it was off to Arapahoe Aero where Scott did surgery on my fuel tank. He found one leak on the outboard end of the tank, so it didnt leak unless that tank tank had more than 36g in it, above that it would leak out rapidly. Otherwise the sealant in the rest of the tank looked fine. We had only 9 hrs into it for the repair, so I was relieved, under 1k AMUs for the repair...I'd feared much worse. AA also cleaned up the rest of my very picky squack list, and we were good to go again. I have heard good things about this shop, and based on my first experience there, I've decided to give them the annuals and non-pilot-MX items. Good competent folks. So my blood pressure is slowly coming back down now that I have that warm fuzzy feeling again. I'm happy with my bird and confident in its airworthiness. I don't know If I can survive another aircraft aquisition with my sanity though! Such a long and stressfull process to get here. After playing with the EDM-830 I have a few observations. The leanfind function isn't quite as usefull as you'd think because of the TIT being the limiting factor on the Bravo. I now use the leanfind to find the peak EGT of the leanest cylinder, and note that EGT#. I then note what the TIT is at that setting (trying not to leave it there for but a few seconds). For reference, in the mid teens I start at 32"/2400...and those numbers tend to be about 1550egt/1720TIT at peak EGT on the leanest cylinder. As soon as I've noted these two figures i'm already richening to 100df ROP on the leanest cylinder...which yeilds a TIT right around 1600df, maybe a little less. I then watch the CHTs and if one tops 400df I'll simply richen a smidge or reduce the MP a few tenths of an inch to keep the warmest CHT at or below 400df. This technique yeilds 185-190 kts in the low teens at 19.5-20.5 GPH. Even thought my EGT spread is less than 30df across all cylinders, based on Jimmy's advice and on my own research, I don't feel compelled to even try LOP. Anyway, forgive the rambling, just sharing my experience. Happy and Safe flying eveyrone. Brian

As a new member and new Mooney Bravo owner i'd like to thank everone who has posted usefull info on this board. Been a big help. I will post some regarding my purchasing experience. Its been mostly all good thought, and i love owning a Bravo. Awesome machine. Ok to the topic. While picking up my Mooney Bravo from the avionics shop after completing an EDM-830 install, I asked the owner about the new Garmin and he waqs clueless like the rest of us. He talks to Garmin on a daily basis and has even talked to a guy whos test flown it...who was mum. He did say they will know a week earlier than Sun n Fun as the AEA Dealers Convention starts Mar 22 in Reno. Your dealer should know then. Brian