RJBrown

This statement is incorrect. Calm down, a little information to help you understand things and it elicits a take it elsewhere response. Your airplane is a 231 with an engine STC. It is not by any reality a Mooney 252. If someone gave you a 252 AFM and said it fit your plane they were wrong. AFM are written by the manufacturer and are serial number specific. You own a 1980 Mooney 231 serial #M20K-0340 I think there is a lot of information out there that you are yet to learn. ‘Don’t close off knowledge, especially safety related knowledge. A little thread creep might save your life some time in the future. Good luck on the plane. Looks like it will be a wonderful machine when you get it flying. Can’t say “finished” A love like this one will always need something new.

Just for the record. Mod Works did not recertify any 231 airframes used for the “262” for 28,000’ the cost would have been prohibitive. The STC is about mechanical changes it does not affect the certified ceiling. Rocket Engineering considered certification to a higher altitude but did not pursue it with the FAA. test flights had been done to 32,000 but the paperwork and engineering to get the results through the FAA proved financially daunting. The altitude certification is not a restriction to part 91 operations. Flight above is legal.

The 1979 231 did not have on board oxygen standard. The avionics package was much worse than any later models, analog with 170B radios and such. Back seat was changed to separate and removable in 84 I think. The 79s has cute little curtains on the rear windows. The LB with wastegate and intercooler make a big difference. Handled properly TBO is now probable. Flown per the original operating handbook they averaged 1200 hours. The airframe was the same. Lots of speed mods were available. Long range tanks are a plus as are speed brakes. with an avionics upgrade the originals panel becomes moot. Oxygen is a must have. Both onboard and a portable back up.

At U-42 (Salt Lake #2 back then) in south Salt Lake valley I was filed IFR to Denver APA. VFR at the surface solid IFR 3000 feet up due to the typical inversion layer. On call up I was given a 30 min wait. Fair, traffic does have to get out of SLC. when I called back 30 later he gave me an even longer wait. I responded OK I’ll take off VFR and pick up my IFR airborne. Took off and circled just east of the class B but fairly close to air he needed. Once airborne I picked up the IFR so quick it made your head spin. He NOW wanted me out of his airspace and gone like now. I was in the clouds for about 3 minutes once cleared. I’ll wait my turn but don’t be a jerk about it. Once off the ground in legal VFR he had to make the big iron miss me. Should have done his job and just fit me in.

N800MS is owned by a John McGhee in Breckinridge CO. I tried to buy this airplane in 2009. Went so far as flying to Denton for a pre buy. The “MS” are the initials of a California lawyer and we’re part of a interesting and questionable history. When I looked at it there was tape across the middle of the last 0 turning it into an 8. Two Arizona doctors were divorcing and had paid way too much to the lawyer. They were not happy with the results of my pre buy. The price came down further than I had offered before is was finally sold. Nice solid plane but had been neglected badly. I wish I had been able to buy it at a fair price. The two doctors weren’t ready for the truth yet when I tried. I paid for a pre buy that surely helped the later buyer. That plane was the “Poster Boy” for why getting a pre buy is important. I’ve paid for a pre buy each time I bought. Both other planes were exactly as represented and I bought them. This plane would have been a nightmare had I not had a Mooney Service Center do a quality prebuy. When the deal fell through on this one I ended up with the J in my avatar. If I had bought this one with a turbocharger I would probably still own it. I could have enjoyed the M20M but after a Rocket I just hated flying the J. (Edit) quite a long ownership history since I looked at it. Mike Sullivan and the Tuglers are the owners I knew about. I later crossed paths with Brian Postle briefly in Colorado. He ended up with a good plane at a good price. I was kind of jealous after we talked.

My understanding of the definition of the term “critical altitude” is that altitude above which a turbocharged engine can no longer make 100% power. Has absolutely nothing to do with climb rate. The service ceiling of a normally aspirated airplane is that altitude were the aircraft can no longer maintain a climb rate of 100 feet per minute. The ceiling of a turbocharged airplane is part of the certification and is not related to climb rate. Note, my experience was with a stock 1980 231/M20K and same plane as a Rocket. The Rockets certified ceiling did not change with the conversion. 231s kept the 24,000’ ceiling while 252s kept the 28,000 ceiling. Rocket Engineering considered raising the ceiling to 30,000’. All testing was done to that altitude but certification was then not sought. Since the certified ceiling is a regulatory thing and does not restrict part 91 flight. Highest I ever had a Rocket was 26,000’. Done 3 separate flights. Each flight was solo so not near gross. The climb rate remained at 1500 fpm the whole way. If my understanding above is not correct, please post correction. Randy. Stock 231 critical altitude is 14,000’ Stock 252 critical altitude 24,000’ Rocket’s is 24000’ also.

Yes, I understand the Father’s Day event is an annual thing. the A-4 in Blue Angels paint was bought to make a sign on a pole but was in such good shape that they kept it. I understand it could be used as “trade bait” for another classic. It is the only unrestored, non flying plane in the group. It is in restorable condition.

I failed to mention the yellow Stinson and the maroon Howard. pretty impressive museum for a little college town of under 30,000.

The Millennial Falcon can fly at the speed of light. IE they make the jump to light speed. warp 1 for the Enterprise was light speed. each successive warp factor was squared. warp 2 = 4times light speed warp 4 = 16 times light speed warp 7 = 49 times light speed some limit at warp ten but it to was later passed. alpha Centauri is 4.3 light years so star wars can’t be limited to light speed to be able to fit the storylines. even at Star Treks warp 10 it would take 1.095 days to reach the nearest star. Again too slow for the story lines. but hey, I’m impressed with 200 knots cruise for a Rocket.

They put an air show on last Father’s Day weekend. My son-in-law told me about it. I really didn’t believe it was a big as he told me. I was wrong. yes it is quite a place and I will return before I head home. I failed to bring my phone and need to get some pictures of everything else.

You are being quite the, impolite person. re read what I said. I have personal experience with improper ATC behavior in a class C. tThat opinion was backed up by a man that later ran ATC in that area. He remembered the poor way that it was run and he corrected it. I have been turned into another plane in the pattern by a tower controller, I knew the situation in the air and literally took over the tower controllers job for a moment. I have been instructed to land on a runway that a citation was pulled onto while I was 200’ agl. Then had to use the tapes to show I was right and the controller was wrong. I qualified my statement about class B. “Traffic conditions permitting” we can judge traffic, especially now with ADSB. We do understand and are understanding of busy controllers. Mine was not a broad brush. To run an IFR flight around for the controllers convenience and not for safety and then lie about it if Wrong. I am older than ATC retirement age. you are a clueless putz. Yes both pilots and controllers make mistakes. Yes most controllers are Wonderful Hard working people. Some Controllers are less than respectful just as there are bad pilots. BOTH NEED CORRECTED. BUT, some like the one that started this discussion are intentional. The president of Pegasus Airpark is a pilot and a controller at Phoenix Sky Harbor. I am also on the HOA board and he is a personal friend. My retired friend ran a center before he retired. I ask the these kind of questions all the time. I do try to verify what I post. This situation was bad action by a dishonest individual. Intentional lazy behavior should be challenged.

My wife and I are visiting the grandchildren in Rexburg Idaho this week. My son in law told me there is a airplane museum at the municipal airport. It is called the Legacy Flight Museum. Pretty neat little place to stop and look around. Inside they have one of 3 airworthy P63 King Cobras, the P51 Mormon Mustang, a Beech 18, a S-2 Tracker, a Stearman, a T-6, a 0-1 Bird Dog and a DHC-4 Caribou that all fly and are airworthy plus a static A4 in Blue Angels livery and a Mash helicopter. Plus a lot of interesting military memorabilia. Just as we were about to leave another guy came over and mentioned they had Ole Yeller and ask if I wanted to see it, it was in the next hangar opened up for an annual. well the answer was yes. His Shrike Commander may be in the Smithsonian but Bob Hoover’s Mustang is in Idaho.

This was a lazy controller. This is bad behavior. He should be reported. You have as much right to the airspace as Anyone. Colorado Springs used to be full of them. Their airspace was up to 10200. I would normally fly over at 10,500. Out of courtesy I would contact them when flying over their airspace. At some point they started diverting any traffic that contacted them almost to Kansas to avoid traffic conflicts. Even those above their airspace. And seriously Colorado Springs is NEVER that busy. Just lazy controllers. From that point onward I would only talk to them if I were called as traffic while already above them. A friend that I have met since I moved to Arizona was in charge of traffic control in Colorado Springs after these incidences. I told him this story and his response was. Yes that was one of the issues I had to fix when I got that assignment. He showed little patience for this type of lazy behavior. They were not following proper procedure and were wrong to do it. Unless that controller can show a real and pressing need to vector you around the airspace he should be reprimanded. If this particular incident was reported and the tapes show what you say he should be “retrained” to follow proper procedure. My story is a class C airport but the rules are similar. Class B should be as accommodating as safety allows. this is another reason I prefer a turbo plane. Unless adverse winds dictate I would always be above the class B. Once coming back from Sidney Nebraska we flew back over DIA/DEN Class B without talking to a soul just because we could. ‘Very interesting perspective right over the center of DIA.

An IFR rating and a turbo increases the dispatch reliability a lot. After owning a 231 and converting it to a Rocket I bought a 1990 J/MSE. Could not enjoy the plane. Every flight was a reminder of what it couldn’t do. Winter mountain flying goes from 20% dispatch to 80% when you have a turbo and the IFR. Flexibility to wait out weather is always mandatory but without the additional capability it becomes constant. The trip that convinced me to sell the J to a flat lander was from Saint George Utah back to Denver. As I watched many planes leave I chose to drive to Denver. Had to make the 1300 mile round trip the next Thursday to recover the plane and return my fathers car. I could not expect to stay clear of clouds in the J on that trip. A J in clouds in the fall over the mountains was beyond my comfort level. The Rocket on the other hand could have gotten above or around the clouds and stayed VFR that day.

My too fast story. Rocket without speed brakes. IFR to Denver’s Centennial from the south west. Center keeps you high over LARKS and configures your decent as if you are headed to FALCON and DIA. Once center hands you off to approach you are almost to APA and still above 10,000‘ Approach immediately had me on the ILS above 200 knots with all power pulled out. There was a solid cloud deck between 1-2000’ agl. I called the miss at CASSI, above the clouds, went around and had a stabilized approach. That slam dunk was an every time event entering the Denver area IFR from LARKS. Even anticipating the slam dunk and having power back to Rockets Minimum decent power. The Mooney was too fast without speed brakes to comply safely. I couldn’t bear to drop gear and flaps 30 miles out and come in like a Cessna. If the airport wasn’t IFR it was easier to cancel back at LARKS and configure your own decent for a VFR landing. Leave center early and not waste all that climb energy by keeping speed up in a longer decent.