JamesMooney

I just had something similar with an IO360. Costs added up quick. Case is $3-5k, remove and reinstall the engine is about $3-5k (30-50 hours were the quotes), some mandatory parts once the case comes apart $2-4k, and engine shop labor $3k. That quickly gets you up between $11-18k. The overhaul option is realistically going to be around $30k (lots of people will debate that and say you can get it cheaper, but most who’ve done it will agree - it adds up too). Tough call: fix the case for $11-18k, or overhaul for $30k. Depends on your mission and the history of the engine I guess. Most shops I spoke to said to stay away from Divco unless your case was new to you and this is the first repair. Anything after that and you’re looking at probably more cracks sooner than later - and all the other costs are the same anyway. if you PM me I can tell you which shops got good referrals, which did not, and give you a PIREP on the shop I used (lots of people here use them and I’m seeing more mixed reviews these days).

I dropped my plane off for a 10 week job. That was 5.5 months ago. I sympathize!

Good points. I hope he also occasionally returns your call, or is easy to work with when making decisions about what to do and when, or can communicate clearly what work is being done/is not, or timelines, or other such niceties. There are many A&Ps who keep our planes safe - but not all of them take the time to treat the pilot as a valued customer. Definitely the safety factor is item #1. For those of us who live near a few high-quality, safety-minded A&Ps, we then next ask ourselves, "what's the 2nd, and 3rd, and 4th thing I value here?" Those are the experiences I think lots of folks are talking about here. (For some, the options are so limited, we take safety and accept no bedside manner. For others, it sounds like there are a few high-caliber options within a short Mooney flight away, and so people also look for an A&P who runs a good quality business too.)

Freeway Airport (W00) has a Mooney Service Center. Tom Williams runs the shop. I cannot say enough great things about him. He’s gone above and beyond for me and really set the bar for what I think a MSC is all about. I used to keep my ‘F at KHEF but moved it to the other side of the SFRA, closer to Freeway. You’ve also got a great new Mooney team in KGAI - also an amazing individual. Good options private message me and I’ll give you both their contact details. the SFRA is easy - esp from Warrenton to Freeway, it would be about a 15 minute Mooney flight and the controllers are very friendly. Not sure why you would avoid that and give up two fantastic Mooney mechanics including a MSC at W00

Fair points about bad days and untied hoses - it happens. We (should) do walk-arounds and test flights near the airport for that. But my question was about the relationship and the treatment (after averaging out the good days and the bad days). Some A&Ps treat you like they value your business. Others don't call you back for weeks. ... After they took your airplane. I'm curious to know what most of us feel is 'normal' and 'to be expected.' (And, maybe, in asking that question, some of us will be inspired to find A&Ps who value the relationship, as much as we value them.)

Good point! I think you solved it with the comment here

Is your Mooney one of the best 'customer service' experiences you have? Or have you resigned yourself to the pros of owning an airplane being balanced with lackluster engagement with the people who keep your plane flying? What separates amazing customer experience from terrible experiences in maintaining your aircraft?

If you want to see a mid-body, I have an F near DC. Happy to swing down your way. Heck, maybe you’ll realize you don’t need all that extra empty space

Looking for a working condition replacement for my dead KX170. Thanks! (And yes, I know, I know - not even the 21st century here ... I'm doing the panel completely next year, but need a temporary solution for a 2nd COM that won't also come with $3k in installation costs beside the unit price. A plug-and-play replacement for my KX170 seems the most cost-effective now and in the future.)

Echo all the above. Even the options that seem like “good deals” quickly add up if you do your homework and get the right things addressed. My first calculation using shop-provided info was $20-24k for o/h based on my shop’s published information and phone calls to them; by the time I got a quote for what everyone on MooneySpace told me was prudent to do (and I agree with!!), I was over $35k plus R&R - funny enough, that was after they had my engine. At almost $40k, I decided to hit the pause button and re-assess my options. At the very least, if not factory reman or new, I would go with a shop that carries a strong upside on resale value (ie Penn Yan) - what little extra you pay, you’ll probably save in transparent workmanship and pricing, and market value on the name brand work on your engine.

In a public forum, all I will say is this: the website clearly says those are 2020 prices. Call them and ask for their 2021 price list. I guess it was an inflationary year.... PM for more.

I would take those prices with a grain of salt. Trust me. Recent experience.

Still avail?

Thanks all for the input. I think I'm going to go the IRAN route. When the dust settles, the overhaul is quickly pushing $30k ... whereas IRAN, with new cam and lifters, is half that. I may do a few bottom-end things and may get the prop IRAN'd too - preventive stuff. I'll still be $12-15k ahead - and the engine is not even half time (900 hours). That gives me ~8 years to plan for an overhaul --- maybe more, maybe less, but who knows either way even with an o/h.

Thanks MB! Definitely would go DLC coated, for sure. I just spoke with the shop and they were skeptical on the roller cam option (my option #3) ... it's an extra $6-8k, compared to DLC coated flat tappets.

So in my situation, someone else is covering the cost for the case. They also covered the R&R cost. The case is open already, and I believe the shop has done an IRAN inspection (am re-confirming with the shop today). But even with those costs being 'covered' elsewhere, it's a big jump from IRAN to O/H. I have basically 4 price points in front of me: 1. Put the engine as-is back together in the new case, get back flying - $10,600 2. Pre-emptively do a new cam + lifters, then get back flying - $13,400 3. Pre-emptively do roller case, roller tappets, and roller cam - $17,700 4. Go the full distance and do the overhaul - $26,400 <- jump in price is b/c this includes a prop + governor overhaul, fuel sys, mags (but I'm not sure if this includes the cylinders being o/h'd and they are 2nd run already - am calling the engine shop today to re-confirm) According to VRef, the overhaul adds $13k-15k value to the plane. I hear everyone's argument that an overhaul improves the value of the plane, but that's still money tied up in the value of the plane, not in your bank or investments (investments which probably have a better ROI over 5-8 years than does value in the plane? ). I could also do any of these along the way now: (a) Muffler ($700) <- the exhaust flame tubes are burnt out (b) Starter ($600) <- its a 20-year old starter (c) SureFly mag install ($1500) <- now may be the time to do this (d) O/H & re-coat the engine baffles ($200) (e) Install a JPI830 or JPI930 - $5000 / $7000 (currently has a US-8A engine analyzer, 4 cyl but shows only 1 EGT/CHT at a time/cycle through) (f) Prop and prop governor o/h - $3500 <- 16 years since done last (g) Fuel sys o/h - $2000 <- 20 years since done last, assuming I don't do the engine O/H but just want to pre-emptively do this Engine currently is 900 hours. I have no intent on selling in the next 5-8 years. I fly 150-200 hours/year. So based on putting 900 more hours on the plane in the next 6 years, I could either: - IRAN: Spend $13k now, plus unknown over next 6 years depending on how the cylinders behave, and $30k O/H in 6 years, to end up with a zero-time engine in 6 years - O/H: Spend $26k now, to zero time and end up back at a 900-hour engine in 6 years I think I'm talking myself into the O/H now... along with the new starter and installing a SureFly mag... and will do the JPI830/JPI930 in the future (keeping the existing US-8A engine analyzer) Thoughts?

IO-360-A1A Last overhaul 18-20 years ago, 900 hours

Great points! However i misquoted earlier. It’s actually $23k... so it’s full value of restoration at $12k more spend. $12k now for $15k value in the future... Does that change things?

Thanks for all the advice! I missed one number. The overhaul is closer to $23k including accessories (fuel system o/h; mounts; baffle coating; etc). So that makes it a full $12k more than IRAN with new cam+lifters. Or $15k more than just getting it back on the plane in a new case. Does that change anyone’s opinion? ...assuming 6-10 years (900-1500 hours) more ownership, at least.

Would love some second (and third and fourth) opinions on a big decision... My engine came off due to a cracked case. It was a surprise before the budget was in place to do major engine work - oh well, I've already gotten past that surprise to the wallet. A well-known engine shop is doing the work. I didn't have to pay for R&R, so that's a freebie in this scenario. Here's my three options: - basic IRAN - $7900 - IRAN plus new DLC cam and lifter - $11,100 <- I would probably do this instead of the basic IRAN, since its the cam+lifter most likely to cause a failure before TBO - zero-time overhaul - $22,950 The engine right now has ~900 hours and looked to be in 'good condition' according to the shop. We plan to keep the plane and fly it for at least another 750-1000 hours (maybe more). I'm leaning toward IRAN with new cam+lifters, and doing the overhaul 7-10 years from now. Thoughts from MS?

My A&P handled it.

So I took my Mooney to the MSC to have the engine removed and sent for overhaul. Somewhere between Texas and Missouri, the freight/logistics company handling it lost it. It was sent on January 7. Today is February 10. My A&P is dealing with the logistics company (Holland). They are blaming another freight handler (YRP) they sub-contracted the near-destination delivery to. That company in turn is pointing fingers back at the long-haul firm. Holland is pointing fingers at YRP, and YRP pointing at Holland. No one knows where the engine is. The companies' websites describe a 30-day response for claims, and a 120+ day possible window after that. Meaning these freight handlers have ~150 days to dither. Thoughts / advice / suggestions welcomed...

I had a similar issue on my F, same engine. There were two causes: 1. Mixture was set too rich. I had to lean it almost all the way back. That said, the problem was mostly at lower RPMs, i.e. 900-1100. 2. First flight of the day, it would start-up rough and run rough for a few minutes. Well documented problem nick-named 'morning sickness.' It was a sticking exhaust valve. Had to have the valve reamed (and push rod replaced). Have you looked at the Lycoming trouble-shooting docs? There's a few good ones online that give you a punchlist of potential items. In my case, it was spot on.

Gray 4" booster seat w/ back - purchased from Marv Golden. Never used - my wife came up with a different solution for the plane. Brand new. Would have returned it to the store but we are past the 30-day limit. Sells online for $93 + tax & shipping. Here's the info: https://www.marvgolden.com/aircraft-seat-cushion-with-back.html Make an offer and pay the shipping - it can be yours!

I'm on the newer end of the crowd here. I've owned a 76 'F for 1 month today. Just over 30 hours of flying this month - including some time with a CFI to get comfortable (and get the insurance company comfortable!), a flight 'home' from TX to DC/VA, and a lot of ~150 mile lunch runs. It's a real change from the Piper Arrow I was flying before. I found myself do KMEI to KRDU in one leg - a ~3 hour jump I never would have thought doing in another plane. It was extremely comfortable and an amazing ride. First oil change is happening now. A few squawks that weren't caught on the pre-buy: - Exhaust flame tubes are burnt out and need replacing - Mixture is waaaaay too rich on the ground and needs to be adjusted - Tach is off a bit - Cylinder #2 valves were reamed before I flew it home - due to some roughness on the ground in TX caused by a sticky valve. Now cylinders #1,3,4 are being checked out to be sure. Not a surprise. This plane did not fly a lot before I got it - great plane, just needs a few kinks ironed out and it needs to fly often. I'm happy to oblige that need! I've been monitoring EGT and CHT during cruise to get familiar with the plane & engine. I'm consistently seeing about 142-144 kts at 24 squared, 10.5 gph, using 1 qt oil every 4-5 hours, and these temperatures, around 6,000-8,000 feet: Cyl 1: 1320 / 295 (EGT / CHT) Cyl 2: 1360 / 310 Cyl 3: 1275 / 325 Cyl 4: 1295 / 280 Having lots of fun and looking forward to my wife's first 'long' trip (her longest in a GA plane) next week, KHEF to 2B2. And yes - I now notice every Mooney on the ramps where I go. Puts a smile on the face! Written by a former Piper fan.