LBM

As others have pointed out, if the engine was so screwed up that replacing the pushrods that were in it with much shorter pushrods was still out of spec I’d wonder how it was even running. Or at least how it was running well enough to take delivery and fly it for a year before finding this. This is one I’d definitely want to hear what Savvy has to say about. Also makes me wonder about the missing logbook page (or pages?). More on those in a moment. I have some knowledge of engine shop lead times, unfortunately. When the engine in my E model (IO-360-A1A) ate a valve in February I made the decision to overhaul it, due to other factors in my specific situation (found misleading logbook entries about TSMOH). I asked around for recommendations, called three well recommended shops for estimates. Penn Yan was highest and slowest, over $50k with 22 week lead time estimated. The other two shops were Columbia (Bloomsbury PA) and Signature Engines (Cincinnati); both quoted $42k and were within couple of hundred dollars of the same total, and both estimate 10 to 12 weeks. I chose Signature Engines, and shipped the engine to the last week of March. They received it and performed the incoming inspection. I received the inspection report with NDT findings on May 9. Among other items, crankshaft was red tagged (crack in flange), and crankcase was found to have fretting, bearing lock damage, and required updating for “new standards for O-rings and oil relief passages” and was being sent out to be refurbished. Last week I learned the shop doing that work was now quoting four month turnarounds. So I am now three months in to what I originally hoped would be a three to four month overhaul, with current estimates having another three months to go. Ugh. Enough of my woes, back to your situation. It sounds like you have the kind of mess Mike Busch advertises he helps with, so I’d definitely be reaching out to Savvy for their read on it. I’d see what they think of the situation with your engine, and the missing logbook pages. Depending on that, especially what you find with the engine, I might also be seeking legal counsel and considering action for recovery from the seller and perhaps the shop that signed off on that last annual. Not having a prebuy undermines your position, but you might be able to negotiate some compensation from them in lieu of taking them to court. Good luck!

It’s getting overhauled, with four new Lycoming factory jugs. That plus age make root cause purely academic as far as I’m concerned, so not worrying about looking for any AD or SB. I would like to know more about the “old valves that would break” as I’ve heard such comments before. I’d especially like to know if there was possibly any kind of embrittlement or metal fatigue contributing to a propensity for breaking. Those were pretty much my thoughts. No broken valve spring observed. There had been none of the classic evidence of sticking valves, i.e. so called morning sickness etc. At most very infrequent evidence of fouling found at mag check, always easily cleared by leaning to burn it off at high RPM. The engine was alleged to be in service for about 1100 hours since it was overhauled, but on careful review I do not believe it was truly overhauled at that time; rather I believe it was IRAN subsequent to a prop strike. I’ve not thoroughly analyzed the log entry to identify all parts identified as replaced. I’m suspicious that valves and valve springs may not have been replaced at that time, and could possibly have as much as 2000 to 3000 hours time in service. Or even as much as 4140 hours, as that is the engine total time. They were certainly over 35 years old, perhaps in their forties. I once lost a car engine when the throttle stuck open on starting and it overrevved, causing valve float before I could react. That’s why I don’t trust valve springs, especially old valve springs, and that’s one of the main reasons I don’t believe in running far past TBO even if the engine is not making metal. This wasn’t running high RPMs, happened in cruise at 23.5 squared, but I assume the valve springs may have been getting tired and lazy. My hypothesis is that the valve may have stuck or floated due to a lazy valve spring and the head got knocked off by the piston. Age of the valve may have contributed, if it work hardened and got brittle because service life was exceeded. Regardless, it won’t matter now. That’s why I choose to do the full overhaul and put four new factory cylinders on it. It’s also why I chose the engine shop I did instead of going with a local shop. I’m doing everything I can to ensure that I have only known good components going forward.

Toast, as far as I’m concerned. Trashed two jugs. The engine kept running with the #3 exhaust valve gone, and that beat the crap out of everything in that cylinder. With the exhaust valve never closing it got pressurized by back pressure from the other cylinders. The valve head was beaten into pieces, and when the intake valve opened some of those pieces were blown upstream into the intake manifold. From there a couple of them found their way into #4 cylinder and trashed it as well. Despite all that the engine continued to run until pulled to idle after landing, when it immediately died. I’m assuming the valve hung or stuck instead of closing and the piston knocked the head off. Could’ve just had the head break off for unknown reasons but that seems crazy, unrealistic. Don’t have logs to check if that jug was ever replaced, the logs went with the engine for overhaul, but I don’t recall changing it since I’ve owned the plane (2.5 years). Engine was midtime on service hours, about 1100 iirc, so I’m assuming that was time in service on that valve. Although it could’ve been more… The local mechanic that helped me diagnose the failure recommended replacing all four jugs and returning it to service. Thing is, approx 1100 service hours but last overhaul was at least 35 years ago. And that may have been IRAN after prop strike not a full overhaul (logs show extensive engine work in 1989 but do not include the word “overhaul”; airframe logs show nose gear repairs and belly skin replacement at the same time). In light of that I decided to bite the bullet and get it overhauled. It’s out getting a full overhaul now.

My ‘64 M20E had engine failure in flight a couple of months ago. No warning, in cruise at 4500’ there was a loud “POP” followed by sad engine noises and partial power. After the ensuing forced landing at nearest airport (itself quite a story) we identified the proximate cause, #3 exhaust valve lost its head.

Depends on why the engine stopped in flight…

Check for PM. Also, info about his memorial service is posted on Smokehouse Pilots FB group, in case you or others might be interested. Seuk was a friend, in fact a couple of weeks ago we flew together when he gave me a lift in his M20J to pick up my M20E from maintenance.

What I think OP said was that he got an excessive drop on right mag, because it was contaminated, or mildly fouled, because of overly rich mixture during ground operations, and that he had to aggressively lean during runup to burn it clean. You’re assuming timing is the only reason for anomalous mag drop, and it’s not. It’s happened to me from overly long overly rich ground runs, and a very lean runup cured it. What does that have to do with timing?

Where are you located? I’m again considering taking on a partner with my ‘64 E, if you would consider a partnership.

I’m afraid we’re on the wrong coast to help the OP, but this is a useful opportunity to share info. I’m 18 months into the journey, may be falling into your method but I’m thinking I’ll do the next annual with the same remote Mooney guru as the first, taking advantage of their promised cost reduction after they got their arms around the mess. Curious to know who you’re using, both remote and local. Still looking for good Mooney shops in NoVA as my remote guru is in NJ. Any recommendations will be much appreciated. ‘64 M20E based HEF.

I sincerely hope you end up as happy with your M20E as I am with mine! sounds like you got a great deal, and opportunity to spend lots of money making a dream airplane. Enjoy!

Enough real estate, back to aviation. I was faced with the same situation as the OP when the pre-buy for my E found the exhaust needed repair or replace. last summer. Shop (Oasis, at KBDH) recommended either replace with Powerflow or rebuild at Aerospace Welding in MSP (https://awi-ami.com/aircraft/mooney.html). I couldn’t convince myself the extra cost of the PF was justified. Went with the rebuild, for approx same price as OP was quoted. They delivered on schedule and budget quoted and I am totally satisfied.

Question: if there is concern about possible damage to the nose gear would that include increased risk of mishap during landing on a ferry flight? Not just gear collapse, if anything is bent does that make LOC on rollout a concern?

Thanks. Somehow I had them farther away. Also got a PM recommending Oasis, about 225 north of Des Moines. So I’ve got a couple of good possibilities already. Thanks!

I’m new here so not sure if this is the right forum for this question, if not please forgive and educate me… I’m about to put a deposit on an aircraft located in Iowa and need to find a good shop to do a pre-purchase inspection within reasonable distance of Des Moines. If my research is correct the nearest MSC is a couple of hours away. That might be within range but seller would like as close as possible, and the deal is good enough that I’d rather not blow it by playing hardball about how far I want him to ferry it. So are there any recommendations for shops with good Mooney expertise in the Des Moines area, or reasonably close, please? thanks in advance!

New here. Just donated, partly to support the new server. Even though that’s .015 AMU less that I have available for buying my first Mooney.

I drove ninety minutes Sunday to see it on an IMAX screen. First time viewing it. totally worth it. but should I worry that during the opening flight deck scene, with Danger Zone blasting through the IMAX speakers, I was thinking “nice, but needs to be a little more intense”?