Navi

Tough crowd here! My comment was an "aside" from Andrew, thought I would share a whimper of news. Nothing official from He , TT or BK.. They don't have timelines for ANYTHING, they are (with the Aerocruise 100) just trying to get parts and get product out the door.. He is happy with the sales volume. If he could just get parts... Nav

Just to stir the pot... Had a note from Andrew Tuesday. Among other things he mentioned that the "Mooney" cert project is finally "moving again" No dates targeted yet... Nav

Interesting but poorly written if it was updated as of Dec 2020 as indicated. No mention of the Trio and no mention that the TruTrak is now BK... Nav

Hmmmm... you can have the tail from my Warrior if your tail could help me catch a Mooney!! N

Of course! Correct, If I was plowing through clag every other flight, I would have absolutely installed the Garmin despite having to put up with that G5.. ! But it is at it's best in conditions I absolutely avoid, and the TT was the perfect solution. "Light IFR" is a perfect descriptor. Although not approved for coupled approaches, it has proven many times, that, coupled to a good navigator, it can put you on the centerline in an emergency. Thanks for the clarification! Nav

Not at all.. looks we are on the same page! I would be happy with either.. I looked back to see if I wrote "No limitations". I found one, it was in reference to the operability of the Garmin AP with the IFD Navigators, and, true, I know of no limitations in its ability to work with the GFC<>G5 combination. Perhaps there was another time.. I triggered on the "limitation" of screen sizes, that I understood were very similar, with a difference of 5-10 % not making a "operational" difference (or limitation) either way. I see some very significand advantages of the IFD software and menus, especially for "hard IFR" flying, and I resource a couple of guys who fly a lot of hard IFR that can offer a very rational discussion of the advantages of the IFDs. I do have a serious respect for any opinions these guys have offered. However, hard IFR is not my jam, so I can be a lot more flexible ! Love to have the bigger screens, but I have completely run out of panel real estate. If I had the room and the mission, I would have the IFD 540. I think Garmin has some great products, but also some "not so great" stuff as well, and their customer support can be .. ummm... challenging.. But not a Garmin hater.. at all! I just wrote a cheque for a nosebleed upgrade that includes a Garmin 175. And it will just fit! >> It’s fine if people pick one or the other but it doesn’t mean one is for true IFR fliers and the other isn’t. If that’s not what you were saying, then I misread you. Certainly not what I was thinking, perhaps a poor choice of words on my part. I think the "all touch screens" in an aircraft, are the ones with the limitations, but that , as you correctly point out, is subjective as well! All good.. Nav

Hmmm... Perhaps I am mistaken.. The info I have... IFD 540, - 5.7 " Diag. GNS 530 - 5 " In Diag. IFD 440 - 4.8 " Diag. GNS 430 - 3.8 " Diag. Garmin 750 XI 6.9 " Diag. with 30% + sacrificed for the touch buttons. Leaving about a 5" diagonal for Nav display.. May I ask what you are comparing? ( I may have some dimensions wrong) I see a difference for sure.. from different "classes " of product, but among products with the same "form factor" , I find the display sizes similar.. Cheers! N

We originally looked at a S-Tec Sys 20 (Alt Hold) to add to our Century one.. Found a used one out of a wind upset Archer. for $4500 So... S-tec wanted... $2350 for the STC. Servo to be returned for re-certification $1900 New wiring harness required, $1250 Head overhauled. re-certed. $900 .... Before the STC would be Issued. $4280 USD before we could use our $4500 used Al Hold accessory.. Big mistake, - I mentioned the used (200 hours) parts were coming out of a damaged aircraft.. (upset in a storm) FORGET IT! STC will never be issued for a component in a "crashed" airplane. Then the Certified TruTrak came to be.... Thankfully the world has moved on.... Nav

On the head display or the Navigator display? Assuming you mean the Navigator.. Not really. Both brands have similar screen areas and resolutions, the differences are minor and operationally insignificant. I would be more critical if it was a rendition of a colour photograph or a home theatre, but a pilot needs it only to get "Information" in this case. At 30 inches (eyeball to display) the human eye can only discern a certain pixel size, after which an increase in pixilation is not visible. Both screen resolutions are near or at this limit now. The new Garmins have a larger screen, but the tradeoff has its cost.. Here is a post from another forum that explains it better than I can.. (more display size <> space for knobs) This is a "limitation" ... Nav --------------------------------------------------------------------- (Name removed) December 14 at 8:24 AM · I recently had a GTN650Xi installed. I was all excited to have newer technology. Yesterday I flew in some pretty hefty bumpy air. It was a textbook day to demonstrate why a touchscreen has no place in a GA cockpit. Had I been in IMC with all the errant entries and the extra touches trying to correct the errors, I could see the possibility of losing aircraft control from the amazingly increased workload. Fortunately, I was able to use the autopilot while straightening out the mess. I shouldn’t need to rely on an autopilot while making simple inputs frequency inputs to a NAV/COM GPS. In short, I’m not pleased with the touchscreen AT ALL ! ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Well, compare to STec and then you will understand. We have to be realistic in what we compare and decide as affordable is. TT is $5100 for a basic AP, GFC is $7500-ish, STec is $20k. The TT is limited if you read the specs and what you get as well as the quality. There is nothing wrong with it, it is what some folks, as well as me, think of as a cheap AP. The GFC500 you have plenty of features that will last you for a long time, read the specs and compare what you can do compared to the TT, head and shoulders more! The cost of that, to me and others, is affordable. The STec Digital AP has a little more features than the GFC, read the specs and compare, and the price tag, to me and others, is a lot. All good comments... ! I will have to differ a bit in the "cheap" part.. As for components, servos, connectors and displays etc., I would rate the TT product as very, very good quality. I installed my own TT, and I have been in, and around the electronics industry since about 1966, and I know what I am looking at. It is not "hardened military grade", but is as good as or better than most of the stuff in our aircraft, equal to or better than the Avydine Garmin and BK products. (IMHO of course) The TT is "Inexpensive" due to fewer features, but that's it. "Head and shoulders " different ?... I don't think so. The TT is lacking airspeed controlled climbs and descents, auto trim and approved coupled approaches, but that is about it. The extra features of the Garmin may not matter to many, but are valuable for those that fly hard IFR a lot. The TT installs out number the Garmin about 10 to 1 or better in the Piper 28s and 32s, and the Cessna single guys report the same. After a couple of years, some interesting information is becoming apparent.. The TT/Aerocruise is getting an enviable reputation as an easy to install and setup AP. 99% Of the Pipers are flying "out the door" with the factory settings. The reliability and quality control is remarkable. A few bad heads, servos, and I have not heard of any TT doing something it was not supposed to do. Garmin has already had a recall on servos, and the reports of them turning themselves on and pushing the nose down at very awkward times is concerning. The "static porpoising " issue with some airframes has not been solved after a year now. (Garmin is waiting for a "donor" aircraft to track this one down) (!) The extra money certainly gets you a more featured and more capable autopilot with the Garmin. You are very correct in equipping for your mission. If you are flying into the clag often because you have to be some place, the Garmin is the proper choice, - spend the $$$ to be as safe as possible in a capable aircraft with an equally capable AP. If you fly mostly VFR, occasionally into IFR but refuse to skirt with weather minimums, the TT or others may be sufficient. S-Tec, with their archaic attitude to STCs, installations and service are still living in a diminishing dream world. Their future is limited. Century , - same, now a shadow of their former self, soon gone... (a new radio tracker board for a Century I is $3600 USD, - guess what THAT customer did? He, looking at 3.6 AMUs plus $800 to repair, looked at the problem for about 2 seconds, then installed a new TT for $7400 out the door!) And, of course, If you have an unlimited budget, well ... enjoy! FWIW! Nav

Garmin have an "in house" STC team authorized by the FAA. A huge investment that is paying off in spades now that the remaining FAA staff are involved in other priorities... Nav

I am one that thinks so... Which ones won't work Greg? It will work with any that output a "Nav" (RS232) data stream, or a ARINC429 (GPSS) Data sentence. I have mine switchable between a Garmin 796 (yoke mount) and GPS 150 XL (Panel) Works perfectly. No other equipment needed. It will listen to the G5 or Aspen E5 in the mix as well. That covers all that I know of.. Nav

That's the real world of the TT and it really works well.. And the support has been good.. (all I have needed was the software upgrade to Vers #4, and it was handled quickly with good communication. ) NO ONE is more upset with the Certification fiasco than Andrew... ! Had a long mail from him late Nov... (more of general business discussion than Autopilots) They (and He) are daily wading through issues that they never could have dreamed of.. Staff and budgets are gone, every plan, good intention, and promise, - gone. Other companies they depended upon for Engineering, parts, raw materials.. EVEN PAINT cannot fulfill their commitments to BK. They have major shipments they cannot complete, (Aerocruse APs , AKA TT, are a small part of BK/Honeywell, they have many other major clients) I know of another company has orders piled up they cannot ship because they cannot get the friggin KNOBS for the controls! Even planned "alternate" suppliers are down. (Or in one case, gone forever. ) They have orders cancelled because the ultimate customer / user cannot pay now. A local petro company here has both aircraft parked because of Covid. Big change from when they barely allowed them time to cool down. One company I heard of in Alberta is wondering how they will survive.. Some of their most talented people are deceased... Covid ripped them... It's a mess..... N

>> SO one TT, One WAAS GPS and a 6 pack of steam gauges will give one a fully capable A/P even for LPV EXCEPT the A/P can't be driving the airplane below 700 AGL. Legal to fly anywhere in the USA IFR all day long as long as one has communication capability (one comm system)(430 covers it all). No backup systems but fully capable all in all. That's it, all of it! No auto trim or MACH cruise settings, auto-throttles, triple redundant A/Ps or fancy stuff like that. I will suggest this to Andrew.. when he has crawled out of the BK hole he is in.. (parts supply , staff, budgets gone, piled up AP orders he can't get parts for, sick staff) But the TT with these features might cost as much as,... maybe, say a Garmin GFC 500 !! The one button push for level flight feature is the biggest safety feature of all. This can save lives. I'm not a TT salesman but I can see good things here. My wife wants it more so than me! It is, and works exactly as intended. ... Ours is mounted center in the panel, within reach of the right seat and possibly someone in the back seat with long arms. Cheers! Nav

Correct.. Most, with the Aspen, use a switch to get GPSS direct from the Navigator, and flip it to the Aspen for Baro Sync and heading. (you can "fool" the Aspen into thinking it has a ACU attached, and it will pass through the Nav steering to the TT but the GPSS tags do not pass through. ) We are adding the ACU 1 to get CPSS through the Aspen and get our VLOC displayed on the Aspen. N

This is a factor Hank! We are starting a substantial upgrade here, new GPS Aspen + + ... Looked at the Avidyne 540 and other glass... then a smuck of reality.. We were getting our investment into 6 seat territory, might as well trade planes! Reality settled in... N

Welcome Sir! We are fortunate here, I happen to live in Canada in the "Atlantic Bubble" . (you can actually Google it! ) And we are struggling hard, but OK. But I have friends with businesses in other areas and it has been devastating. Businesses gone, incomes gone, retirements gone, loved ones gone... Any supply chain issues can take a business down - big or small, you are dead in the water if you cannot get the parts and supplies you need... It will be a long and difficult recovery... Cheers!

From my install.. You need.... The TT Autopilot out of the box An on/ off (master) switch ($9) A circuit breaker ($36) A push button on the yoke (CWS) switch ($4) A push button, on the panel , for "Emergency Level" ($8) A sonalert/buzzer and (optional) LED for the disco alarm ($22) ( ($6) Hand tools and a power hand drill. About 22 hours of shop time (1 person) including paperwork (your local rate) Your choice of navigator, (WASS if IFR) ANY navigator with a standard ARINC 429 "GPS" data output. (they ALL have this for the past 30+ years. ) I am using a Garmin 150XL, installing a GPS 175 next month. That's the "down and dirty" ( I installed it my self, (with mechanic oversight) and I ordered and paid for every component. I drilled every hole, made every connection, installed every switch and breaker and the wires, the setup, checkout and flight test. Flying it since March of 2018 This is an inexpensive autopilot without some of the features of more expensive ones. It is NOT a "cheap" product. I am trained in the electronics industry and have been around it since 1966, and when it comes to components and motors, displays and servos, I know what I am looking at. Cheers! N

>>>Can't one fly legally IFR with just one WAAS GPS unit and nothing more in the panel? Won't the TT do its functions (down to 700' manual VNAV) with just that input? In looking at the block install diagram I see nothing more required?>> Yes. All you need... And although not "legal" I would not hesitate to push that "coupled" button IN AN EMERGENCEY and let it take me to the runway. Which it will do. The TT has guided experimental aircraft down coupled approaches thousands of times over a couple of decades. TruTrak is NOT the new kid on the block. I am piling up the hours on mine, and if there were needles in the sky, you can thread then with this autopilot. It just works that good. N

All true, except the FAA DID take time away from our unimportant needs and concentrate their (now) skeleton staff on the Boing crap show. Unless you had your own "STC House" (Aka Garmin and Boeing) you were under the pile. Many, including BK. are struggling with budgets and staff that have disappeared and parts supply chains that have disappeared to the extent that they had to be "literally) replaced.. Here in Canada we have thousands of businesses that are gone forever, big and small. The US is in worse shape.. N

Ummm... no.. The twin G5s or the Aspen e5 will replace your AI and DG. You have to legally retain your TC OR AI, and airspeed, Altimeter and sometimes, the VSI. N

Hmm... FWIW.. the TT is fully capable if GPSS steering, as long as it is provided in the Navigator output ARINC 429 data sentence. It responds smoothly and very accurately to EITHER "Nav" or "GPSS' data.. Nav

Testing and design has been all done long ago.. They have engaged a partner specializing in the STC process to get this done and refine a framework to make it happen.. I suspect their "partner" may be starting "new" with all the ground work being done? Speculation, just piecing together a fuzzy picture.. FWIW.. Your frustration is valid...

About 2 hours ago I got an e-mail from Andrew saying essentially the same. 2020 Was a costly year, budgets were decimated with Covid challenges. Parts supply terrible. They hope to have several models approved next year, Mooney is closest and first. He says they are essentially writing off 2020.. His words... ". Basically 2020 is just a lost year on a lot of projects." Looks like 2020 is a "forgettable" year for them.. and a lot of other companies... Nav

Lots of GFC 500s flying with the Avidyne Navigators. No issues, and the hard IFR guys like the choice of touch OR Knobs and shallow menus of the Avidynes. No limitations. Nav