ArrowBerry

I had made this post two years ago regarding our setup. I just renewed that same $15/month data plan and next time we are at the hangar we will be setting this up for winter number three.

Based on serial number. This is the M20E section of the engine controls catalog. The first three lines are quadrant style cables for later models, the fourth line is '65 and '66, and the last line is '69 and '70. My serial number is 670024. Honestly the paperwork sign off isn't really a concern for the reasons stated, everyone knows McFarlane. I was more curious if there is something structurally or mechanically different for the '67 year that would make the cable physically different. Length, dimension, a clearance somewhere?

Over the last four years of owning our 1967 M20E I've noticed that the '67 model year is not as well supported in parts at some vendors as the '64-'66, and '69+ model years. From what I have read, the M20E wasn't available in '68. For example, when looking at control cables for throttle, mixture, and prop at McFarlane they have nothing in their catalog for the '67 model year. They have up to '66, skip '67 and '68, and continue with '69 and onward. It made me wonder, is there something different about the '67 year that would make them exclude it? When I look at part numbers for a throttle cable it's the same number for '65 and 66' E models, and '66, '67, and '68 F models. Considering the the E and the F are basically the same firewall forward, why would the '67 E not have the same cable? Or does it, and its just not listed in their catalog? I understand that McFarlane can also make custom cables based on an owner produced original but they are not FAA-PMA certified... so what kind of paperwork is required to install this in a certified plane?

We also run a Cessna Ag Truck in our business with the IO-550. The airplane sits from October to May generally and we use the Phillips 20W50 Anti Rust oil in it during that time. We change the oil and filter at the end of the season and fly for about one hour to warm the oil to operating temperature and burn off moisture, then park it. I have read that when using this oil it's important not to turn the prop after you park it because the oil has coated the interior of the engine and you don't want to disturb it. If you are unable to fly, maybe a solution is to change the oil and do a really good run up before parking? https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/eppages/phillips20w50.php?clickkey=3032011

I recently priced out a two and three blade propeller new from Hartzell for our E model. The two came in at $15,291 and the three at $18,891. I think it's outrageous honestly, and we decided to keep our old prop. Mind you, ours is a non recurring AD "B" hub, so at least we have that going for us. It hardly seems worth it to shell out that kind of money for marginally better performance

We have used Marsh for our M20E with success since we bought the plane in 2020. They have consistently been the cheapest. We also use them for our Cub on floats and gotten the best rate after shopping around, plus their deductible was also one of the lowest.

We bought a plane and flew it back from the Deer Lake area to Winnipeg in May this year. We thought the fuel was insane on the island as well, but I guess you don't have a lot of options! Recently in the US we were getting about $4.90 per gallon at the lowest, that was in KS and SD. In Winnipeg the smaller airports are about $2.10 per litre, up to closer to $2.75 at St Andrews and Winnipeg.

We had a battery die on us after the plane sat idle for too long and drained it entirely. Would not take a charge. We bought a replacement battery from Spruce and it didn't work right out of the box. The "no bat" annunciation came on right away, and it persisted even to move the battery into our second G5. Garmin itself recommends maintaining at least a 30% charge in the battery, and yet the manufacture date of the new one we received was nearly two years prior. I suspect it had been sitting on the shelf for two long. Anyways, we did the warranty claim through Spruce and it took forever... like 3-4 months, but they did send us a new battery that finally worked. Does anyone know if Garmin is still honouring the warranty for the G5 serial numbers affecting by the battery draining service bulletin? I was a little bit out of the loop on that until we had this battery issue and now I'm wondering if we can still send in the unit to be fixed/replaced... whatever they do with them?

Yeah I'd be really happy to hear your opinion once it gets installed. Our planes would likely have the same performance gains or observations. It sure looks good.

I was just curious if it made sense money wise because say in theory our prop is worth $7k with hub and blades, and the cost of the overhaul is $5k, you're already $12k into the new prop... so if you bought the Hartzell for $15k, and spent another $2k on shipping and installation labor costs--you would have to come up with another $5k... Roughly... I'm guessing on those numbers. But you get the idea. I don't know. That's also a lot of flying gas.

Does anyone have a rough idea what a "B hub" and blades would be worth on the used market in good condition? During a cursory search I couldn't find a single one for sale used to compare to. I did get a quote from Hartzell, however, on the new two blade scimitar of $15,300 and the three blade option at $18,900 Holy cow!

Thanks for your response. I was just looking at your avatar picture and noticed you are from Wichita. My partner was at FlightSafety last week for a King Air recurrent and I brought the plane down for the weekend. Had lunch at Stearman field and did a day in Kansas City at the WW1 Museum. The Mooney is such a fantastic plane for travelling!

Yes it does have a restriction for the E and F models, no continuous ops between 2350 and 2550 rpm above 24 inches MP.

I've been educating myself on Mooney propellers this evening. Firstly, trying to wrap my head around which models and serial numbers are affected by the recurring 100 hour AD. We have the HC-C2YR-1BF from Hartzell with a hub serial number of CH39229B. I understand that we are not affected by the AD because the hub serial number ends with "B", which I've seen referred to on this forum as a "B hub" -- is this correct? Second question, next year our prop will be due for its mandatory 10 year overhaul. This is a Canadian requirement for all constant speed props regardless of hours of use, no way to avoid it. It makes me wonder what other props are available with an STC for a 67' M20E that would remove the RPM restriction from 2100-2350. I've been cautioned by an engine shop and a couple mechanics to stay far away from this "red range" as it really does trash the bearings and should be respected. We operate at 2450 in cruise for every flight to give us a buffer to account for potential tach errors etc, in an effort to stay far away from this red line! I want to do some math to see if its better spent money to sell our current prop as is, because in the US the overhaul requirement wouldn't apply, and put that money (and save the cost of the upcoming overhaul) towards a new prop. Our current prop was installed new in 2005, and last overhauled in 2015. I'd have check the book but its low time, less than 400 ish hours since new? And 90% of those hours since 2015. I've looked at the two blade Scimitar prop as a potential candidate but it also has an RPM restriction for the E, no continuous ops between 2350 and 2550 rpm above 24 inches? Is there anything to gain by switching props, aside from the general sexiness of the scimitar?

We replaced one in our 67E a couple years ago with the LAMAR, easy enough to get from Spruce and its worked good so far. Also replaced the same relay in a different plane and it failed after one year. Seems kind of ridiculous that you pay $180 for a "certified" relay that lasts one year while I can put one in my truck from Amazon for $20. Alas... paperwork.

I've used a couple different automotive degreasers for under the wings, around the gear, belly etc. If you experiment with a couple different brands you'll notice that pretty much all of them are good at removing the oil and grease, but only some of them really cut into the exhaust staining. I did some trial and error to find one I liked. One thing I always do after applying a degreaser is to follow up with quick wax so that there's no degreaser residue left on the paint. Mostly out of an abundance of caution, I've never had an issue doing it this way. Plus it makes cleaning the next time easier. This is a brand that I've come to use often, it's about $12 for 950ml. Probably different brands are available depending on where you live. Apparently automotive Simple Green is corrosive to aluminum so that's the only one that I'm aware of to stay away from. They do make an aircraft version that's okay to use but you probably won't find that at a general hardware store. I've never had to use a degreaser on anything except the bottom of the plane. The top of wings, tail, fuselage etc I use automotive quick wax. Usually the Mothers or Meguiars brand. Honestly whatever is on sale when I'm there. Meguiars makes a really good liquid polish and wax that I use about once a year when I really do a deep clean. The quick wax is a great maintainer in between. Plus they usually smell really nice

Noted... not everyone is as skilled with a parts manual, or cares to do the research, as a buyer would like.

I recently bought the HE fuel selector rebuild kit from Lasar. I sent Dan a couple pictures and he figured that was the right one. This is what ours looks like, and the old sticker was barely readable but HE could sorta be made out from what's left of it. Ours has been seeping undetected for a little while, the blue dye makes it look quite messy around the connections. We discovered the leak, however, by a small amount of fuel collecting inside the cockpit around the selector valve handle itself. I can't tell you if it's the correct one yet because we haven't installed it yet, but this is what is looks like and what Lasar recommended!

Okay I understand, that's a good eye. When I look at the part diagram I see it now. Thanks for clarifying that.

We recently completed and passed the AD for the control wheel shafts. Out of curiosity I looked on eBay and some salvage sites to see what the theoretical cost and availability would be in having to replace one of them. I noticed that for the same advertised part number, some shafts have a small bearing or something it looks like in the centre and some don't? If I remember correctly ours did not, but what's the difference? Are the interchangeable? And why are they advertised with the same part number if they aren't the same? The part number in question is 72005-1, which is the LH control wheel. These are the two ads right on top of each other on eBay I was contemplating.

Okay so the argument is whether or not the G5 altitude readout is accurate. That's a very valid point. If you kept the layout the same, would you say it's better to put the TC on the right side and keep the airspeed and altimeter on the left? The only reason we had drawn it out the way we had was to have a back up "keep the wings level" sort of instrument. But you're right, in not ideal conditions the TC may not be as helpful as you'd want for that purpose. Its too bad the panel wasn't just a bit bigger to fit everything in! Secondly, the iPad. The company I fly for (King Air) uses the iPad as an electronic flight bag. That's essentially what we would like to use it as in our Mooney. We don't carry paper charts, maps, booklets, or company manuals etc for work either. Legally we're required to keep two charged iPads in the cockpit with all the up to date data, and we would employ the same rule for our private flying. My partner also flies corporate jets (Challenger and King Air) and his company has the same policy. The geo referenced charts for arrivals, departures, approaches, and taxiing are invaluable for situational awareness in my opinion. For shits we "taped" the iPad to the right side of the panel one day to see how it worked and it's just too far to be able to see the fine print of an approach plate. Not to mention how far it is away from your scan when in actual IMC. You're right to say that past the FAF and other critical phases of flight its not a primary focus, but in the event of a missed approach, it also gives you the geo referenced missed approach on the plate. The primary direction still comes from the GPS to your HSI and command bars, but I've always thought having that big picture map was really helpful to have close by.

I've found it to be nearly impossible to remove the filter cleanly when the engine and oil is hot. We've tried a couple different things like the half PVC pipe, and those flexible rubber drain deflectors. They definitely make it better, but be darned I just can't seem to get it without a little bit of oil getting by that I have to clean up after. If you have time, my best advice is to drop the oil and let it drain overnight or at least a few hours. As long as it takes for the oil to cool and hopefully drain a little bit out of the filter and back into the engine... and then change the filter when it's cold. Doesn't seem to make nearly as much mess. Then the next day, or the next time I fly I'll change the filter, add oil, do my run up, inspect, and then go flying.

The G5s are primary for attitude and the DG, we don't have those round gauges in the panel anymore or a vacuum system to run them. We aren't going to be removing any of the other four gauges from the original six pack, the turn coordinator, altimeter, airspeed, VSI are all staying--just a matter of deciding where to put them. Both G5s are AHRS capable, the HSI can be toggled to display attitude independently with its own battery. It also shows all of the same non-primary functions (alt, VSI, TC etc) so you have the non-primary backup of those as well. In the event of an electrical failure, in theory you would have the aircraft battery, and two G5 batteries to run through before you would loose the screen. I know these can fail, but each one is remarkably more reliable than a gyro and people used to fly these all the time IFR with just one gyro attitude. Obviously we're shooting for improvement and higher standards but it seems archaic to me to cling to these "primary" relics. A properly calibrated G5 runs off the same pitot static lines as the analog gauge, and the primary is still in the panel--albeit not right in front of you, but still available to verify. The iPad now contains a lot of information that seems more useful than staring at an analog altimeter while I already have two in front of me. ADSB traffic, real time weather, maps, charts, frequencies etc... basically an entire flight bag sitting right in front of you. I take the point of lacking an engine monitor. I agree. It's on the list. Also, regarding the autopilot location. I've flown a C182 with it mounted at the bottom right above the engine controls. My work plane with the G1000 has it mounted at the top centre and that feels more natural to me. It's more heads up, and easier to see the little lights beside which mode is active/armed. I'm sure its a matter of preference.

What does the group think about this? Sometimes I think that it's silly to use valuable space on the left side to place "primary" instruments which are covered by the G5. When we fly in reality our scan is focused on the glass. I've seen a couple panels on here which have moved some of those redundant instruments to the right side. Recently we returned home from a 10 day trip flying to/from, and within Florida. Mostly VFR, but some IFR legs. The high density airspace really highlighted the need to have the iPad in a more convenient location than on your lap. I know yoke and window mounts are an option. However, why not right in front of you? You can mostly ignore the centre stack, that doesn't affect the left and right sides and its still undecided for us!

Okay I understand the output tube, going to the fuel pump. Which parts are the pointer and the ring? Without a cap plug, would another option be to drain the fuel into a clean pail from each tank as you remove the feed line for that side?