wombat

Minor update on my plane: I got the antenna off no problem and I think the plane looks a lot better. Sprayed some silicone lube in the starter and after that it was 100% for the 10 or 12 times I tried it. It was about 50% before. It's going into the shop tomorrow afternoon and I'm going to have them look at the rigging to see if it is all OK. If they can't see anything I'll probably leave it for the annual and have an actual Mooney shop take a look.

I was out and about the other day and shortly after take-off I suddenly got a lot of static on the intercom, bad enough I would have trouble hearing anyone on the radio. I noticed that it was affected by me moving around sometimes. It took about 3 minutes of fidgeting before I identified that the end of my cable to connect the phone to the intercom so I can listen to music was under the Johnson bar. Was worried I was looking at an expensive electrical problem.

Thanks for the advice so far. If $5 of lubricant every 10 or 20 hours can keep the starter going I'll do that. It'll take a lot of cans of silicone to make a $400 + labor starter replacement a good deal even if it does save me a few pounds.

So I've been flying my plane for a couple of months now and am starting to get used to it. But as I am getting more familiar with it I'm starting to notice a few things that I didn't before I bought it. When starting, typically when I engage the starter it doesn't kick the bendix out on the first try but it always always does the second time. I am planning on getting some silicone spray lubricant and squirting it in and am hoping that will work for a while. Second is that I have an ADF but it doesn't work; I was thinking of just taking the antenna off. I can easily just un-hook the wire from both the top of the cabin and the top of the vertical stabilizer. As long as the ADF is marked INOP is there any problem with this that anyone can think of? I'm considering having the unit removed at my next annual anyway just to get rid of the weight and save complexity (more powered stuff in the cabin is more chance for a short). But I figure if I pull the antenna with its rubber bungee hanging out in the wind I can only be helping my airspeed. Third is that on the Arrow I used to fly I could see changes in fuel pressure on the fuel pressure gauge when I adjusted the mixture. The gauge was marked in PSI and in GPH. On my Mooney changing the mixture doesn't seem to change the measured pressure at all. Without the boost pump the pressure is always at the VERY low end of the green arc, but with it (a new Whelen replacement) it's about 1/3 of the way up, no matter what I have the mixture set to. Is this actually normal? I set mixture by the EGT so I don't need it, but this is not what I was expecting. The last is that the aircraft always wants to bank left. It's barely noticeable when in normal cruise flight, but it becomes pronounced when the flaps are extended. With full flaps it will bank at perhaps 5-10 degrees per second if I don't hold it level even though the ball is centered. Am I looking at an expensive adjustment to get this fixed or should this be fairly inexpensive? Inexpensive in Mooney terms, of course. One 'bonus' topic is that I've got a David Clark H10-13X that uses an external battery box but can be cabled directly if the appropriate plug is installed. This would be in addition to the regular audio jacks. Has anyone had this done? It looks REALLY simple if I can find the right cable and I'd love to get rid of the battery box and it's tangle of extra cables. I can't seem to find the right cable from Aircraft Spruce or on the (mostly useless) David Clark web page. Thanks for all your help!

The registration shouldn't be in the back of some else's new 2 them plane, they should have the pink copy of the 8050-1 in the back of their plane. That works as the registration (in the US only, no trips to Canada or Mexico) for 90 days until you get the permanent registration. Having just gone through this last week I'm pretty confident of this.

Update: The plane is up and operational again. I ordered the Weldon 18020-A from Spruce yesterda overnight delivery. It arrived this morning and I got it and the plane to the shop by about 11:30. They were done by 3:30, including a few other small things I asked for. Now when I put the boost pump on the fuel pressure instantly goes up to the green bar. My old dukes is sitting on my kitchen counter (Yes, I'm single) waiting for me to store it somewhere. This evening I flew another 1.3 hours of flight for training take-offs and landings and now I'm ready to explore the great big yonder

Marauder: The Weldon is a replacement for the Dukes, either with the upgrade kit or the newer model (18020-A) that doesn't require the upgrade kit. I think I'll save the older one for now unless I can get the full core price (AS&S says $350) for sending it in. If I could, that would make this whole experience significantly less expensive! On the bright side it looks like I can get my plane back this week, probably by Wednesday! While I don't think this will salvage my planned flight to the midwest, I will get to do a lot of flying and learning around here! Clay

Thanks for the feedback everyone! You are a really helpful crowd. Based on the time to overhaul Vs. ordering a new one, I'm going to get a Weldon 18020-A pump new as soon as I can find a shop to do the work for me. I have just this week and next to spend flying (I'm between jobs) so getting the plane flying again ASAP is critical to me. At that point I'll have a Dukes pump that I can do whatever with. It'd be a shame to throw it away but I don't have much use for it other than as a spare and that's only if I get it overhauled first. Can I get the core value by sending it into one of the overhaul shops? Does anyone have any good ideas on what I can do with it? Clay

A week? I got 2 days and a single 1.3 hour flight! *laugh* I realize that this is part of the cost of owning one of these aircraft; I'm not particularly worried about it. If I can have it overhauled I will, but suspect that it may be a replacement required. The pump I have is the dukes one, but I couldn't read a model number off of it. Does anyone know, are the Weldon pumps STC'd? I see model 18020-A listed on aircraft spruce as being for the 'E, but I don't know if that's available for all serials or years.

I bought my plane earlier this week and got out to go flying this evening. When pushing back after landing I noticed it was dripping fuel out of a small drain just on the pilot's side of the nose gear doors. It was pretty steady at about a drip every second or two. If I turn the fuel selector to "OFF" it will stop, otherwise it continues to drip. It didn't do this on Monday when the seller and I flew it 3.1 hours total and it wasn't dripping at all during the inspection. If I turn the boost pump on it sputters and streams out. That drain (In the picture attached it is the one circled in red) is coming right out of the electric boost pump. The green circle is around the drain that you can actuate next to the fuel selector; that one is fine. Any ideas on what I can do other than just take it in and have the pump overhauled or replaced? Is this fairly common? Bummer that my plane is grounded on the first week.

As of today there is one more out here. N6946U, '64 M20E, Serial #316 is now mine. Oh dear god what have I done?

Tom: Looks like a great plane from what I can see, but if you had a recent major overhaul, wouldn't putting in a factory reman engine be a bit counterproductive? A 0 SMOH engine sure isn't a 0 SFRM, but it's not bad at all, and I would think that would be a horribly expensive change to make that change for the not-that-much more value you would get out of it. I sure wish you had a GPS in there, then it would be a perfect plane for me. I'll give you a call tomorrow anyway; perhaps this could be the plane I'm looking for. It's almost 9:30 PM on a Sunday night now so not the best time to call. Clay

Bill: I don't know what I'm missing, but I can't find pics of the plane on the http://www.flaps-down.com website and I only found a few pictures from here on mooneyspace. Perhaps I'm just slow today, so please help me out. Clay

I turned the one I had been looking hardest at down because the engine had 43 years since last major overhaul and multiple years in a row without any flight. It did have nearly 200 hours in the last few years, but I'm not confident enough in it to last long enough to be a good value.

I'm looking for a M20E, and a Garmin 430W is on my list of "Must Have" equipment. I'll respond to you in PM as well. Tell us more about the plane!

carusoam: You are right; I thought pretty hard before posting those price ranges and what I'm looking for. That was also a reason I didn't state on why I hadn't posted the specific planes I'm looking at. I figured that with what I posted it was worth the risk of losing out on a plane I was interested in and if there was enough desire from the other members I'd let people know which planes I am looking at. There is a pretty constant flow of aircraft in and out of the market, if someone else wants a specific plane more than me, well... they can have it and I'll take the next one. I've seen quite a few planes come and go on the market since I started looking, including several that now that I know more and am ready, were better deals that what I see now. For those following along at home, I may be taking a flight to a <REDACTED FOR SECURITY REASONS> this weekend to look at a <REDACTED FOR SECURITY REASONS>, have it inspected on Monday and could possibly own it by Monday night. And for this one, I really would rather not tell the world at large which plane I'm looking at until after I make a decision. Clay

Sorry for the delay in responding, everyone. Insert complaints about work and relationships taking too much time here. Plus I have logged 6.5 hours in rentals in the meantime and started on my seaplane training! I also have set up an LLC to own the plane (Plane Partners, LLC) and gotten all of my finances ready so I can purchase instantly when the right deal comes knocking. I've started looking into a purchase agreement that I can use to provide both the seller and myself a level of safety as we negotiate for any 'issues' that may turn up. Thanks for bringing that up Scott. My ideal price range is between $40k and $50k, which I had to raise from my initial hope of $25k to $35k from back when I hadn't decided on a Mooney. I can go some higher than that but I would need it to not only be a great plane but a great deal as well for me to go outside of that primary range. The risk of a post-purchase major expense is something I would like to be prepared for. I do get the message loud and clear that the C and F models would probably fit my needs nearly as well and I shouldn't categorically exclude them. I'll scan listings for those models as well. Based on some of your messages here, I am solidifying my tactic with the pre-buy: I'll have the mechanic look for the same things as I've always been thinking. But... If the annual is more than a month or two old at some point near the end of the pre-buy I'll have him or her change to a 100Hr or annual, depending on if an IA is available. Most of the work I'm asking to have done would be part of the inspection so while I'm sure it will raise the price of the inspection by a 1/2 AMU or so, that will allow me to escape at a lower cost if things turn out poorly, but still have the mechanic perform a full inspection and sign their name in the logbook without too much extra cost if things work out well. It also allows full disclosure and negotiation for any airworthiness issues since it is an inspection. I have not come across anyone who wasn't comfortable getting their plane to a outside mechanic for the pre-buy, or even a MSC, so that seems easy. And also I think that if I list features in order of desirability to me that might help me refine my search a little better. No corrosion (absolute must) IFR capable (absolute must) Garmin 430 or better and a second Nav/Com 2 Axis Autopilot Flown 40+ Hrs/year for the last couple of years at least, preferably SMOH. Johnson bar No AD on prop Autopilot capable of flying approaches E or F (I lust after +20HP, +2" MAP and LOP ops) <1500 SMOH Standard 6-pack ordering of instruments No damage history Paint in good condition Fuel tanks in good condition Speed mods Interior in good condition And in case anyone is in the Seattle area, I'm hoping to find a partner or two for this aircraft at either Boeing Field (BFI) or Renton (RNT). If I could find a partner before a purchase was made, that would allow us to upgrade to a 231. But chances of that are slim and I'm not willing to risk overspending and then being desperate for a partner or stuck in debt with an engine overhaul I wasn't expecting. I have not posted the ones I'm interested in so far for a couple of reasons: Since the availability keeps shifting, in 2 months all of those links would be worthless. I would prefer not to post something negative about a specific plane and have the current owner see it and decide not to sell to me. I would prefer not to post something positive about a specific plane and have the current owner see it and raise their price. I was thinking I could post a list of the planes on my 'short list' with no comments, just so people know which ones I'm looking at. Would anyone be interested in seeing that? Thanks everybody for your help; and if anyone has specific planes that they think I might be interested in, please feel free to let me know. There are a lot of planes out there and I might have missed a good one. Clay

Thanks for the feedback everyone! I'll look more closely at the C models, but I think that the extra HP, ram air and ability to run LOP* on the E if I choose to do so is worth a few AMU for me. For whoever posted the link about the one in Ohio, thanks, I hadn't looked closely enough at that one yet but I've talked to him now and it's right in there in terms of value. It's currently my second-best option. I don't know why you or someone else deleted it, but I'm glad I saw it. That sort of "Look at this one!" message was what I was really hoping for. I did get a message like that about a C in private messages and I'm still looking at it; I'll respond privately this weekend. I'd love a turbo, but the additional expense just isn't worth it to me. Each additional dollar gets harder to part with as I reach my budget limit and each additional dollar buys a little less speed than the one before it. I've thought about having the pre-buy turn into an annual, but am concerned that if I have them do a full annual, I won't be able to afford a plane if the first one turns something up. Perhaps what I can do is start with a pre-buy only, and since I plan on staying with the plane during the inspection, make a decision based on the status partway through to either turn it into a full annual or just button it up and rescind any offer I have out on the plane. Clay Chase * NOTE: LOP operations requires appropriate engine monitoring, training and a willingness to take on some (un-measured) level of risk. I think it's a personal choice.

Hi, everyone. I've been looking for several months for just the right plane and getting all my ducks in a row and am ready to buy. I've got a couple of planes that I'm negotiating on already but thought someone here in Mooneyspace may have or know of a plane for sale that isn't listed anywhere yet. If you do, please PM me or reply to the thread. The Cessna 172's I've been renting just aren't cutting it any more, so as the topic says I want to buy an Mooney. After looking at my budget and mission, I think that a well equipped E series is the plane I need. Because I'm expecting to regularly fly 1.5 to 4 hour flights, often IFR, I'm only looking at planes that have a G430 or better and an autopilot. I could buy without those and install them, but as everybody has said, buying with those already installed is a significantly more cost effective decision. For me, almost all other factors only impact the price and while I'm flexible on what the actual cost is, I'm sensitive to the value I'm getting. In other words, I can spend more or less, but the plane has to be worth it. Things like engine time and paint and interior are not requirements, but I know what it costs to get them done and will expect to pay appropriate to their status. Some of the things I've done/read/considered are: Been using AOPA's VREF (http://www.aopa.org/members/vref/), which I think tends to underprice these planes, and Jimmy Garrison's Valuator. (http://www.vintagemooneygroup.com/M20EValuation.html) Become familiar with many of the Mooney specific things I need to check in a pre-purchase inspection and have a good list of things to include, including LASAR's pre-buy guide and am expecting to spend about $1,500 to $2,000 on it. ( I don't think I can really justify a full annual as a pre-purchase inspection, although DaveL's recent experience (http://mooneyspace.com/topic/11834-just-learned-my-c-is-junk/) makes me nervous. I live in the Pacific Northwest like he does, so his experience is very applicable. Read everything on this thread here on mooneyspace: http://mooneyspace.com/topic/8-prospective-vintage-mooney-buyers/?fromsearch=1 Read what Aviation Consumer has to say: http://www.aviationconsumer.com/issues/36_7/usedaircraftguide/5572-1.html Been a member of MAPA for several months and been following along their e-mails and looking at current and past publications. Talked to several Mooney owners and have flown in a couple of them already. Have some experience (about 150 hours) in equally fast or faster aircraft and my instrument and commercial tickets, so I'll be OK keeping up with the plane. Have an instructor available that can teach in either his M20C or mine when I get it. Am on the wait list to get a local hangar. Read Ron Wanttaja's book "Airplane Ownership" (http://www.amazon.com/Airplane-Ownership-Ron-Wanttaja/dp/007145974X) Used many websites to find planes for sale: http://www.globalplanesearch.com/ http://www.trade-a-plane.com/ http://www.controller.com/Default.aspx http://www.aso.com/ http://www.aerotrader.com/ http://www.aircraftdealer.com/ http://www.barnstormers.com/ http://www.airplanemart.com/ http://www.lasar.com/ And of course regular google. If anyone knows of anything else I should do in preparation for purchasing a vintage Mooney, I'd be glad to hear it! Clay Chase