LevelWing

To the lien holder, as in the bank he is financing with? Others may have better advice, but I'd be cautious of this if that's what you meant. At that point you're just paying his loan down for him. Does the 10% of maintenance cover anything that happens while he's deployed, including oil changes and pop up maintenance? What if a cylinder goes bad or something else happens? You're only responsible for 10%? If so, and it's in writing, that's a good deal. I'd want that in writing though. If your wife is wanting an out clause you may want to re-consider the money going directly to the lien holder and instead sending it to him. He's then responsible for it; the lien holder won't be giving that back. What did you work out as far as upgrades, including ADS-B out? Others have recommended consulting AOPA on their partnerships and I think that's a good idea.

Thanks for the thorough run down on this. I think for the sake of simplicity, it's easier to just find one that has the following: Merlyn waste gate upgrade Intercooler (Airflow or TurboPlus) An upgraded engine (LB or LB1) instead of the GB If I find one that has those three it sounds like I should be in decent shape for engine longevity and reducing pilot workload. Avionics aside, is there anything else I should be looking for in a 231, such as speed brakes or oxygen (most of the 231's I've seen have oxygen)?

Insurance and partnership stakes aside, if the plane meets your mission and the maintenance is something you are comfortable with, it seems like a good decision. I would suggest, however, that you not be afraid of other aircraft just because you don't know it as well as this one. Many, if not most, of us have bought planes in different locations that we weren't familiar with. A thorough pre-purchase inspection is required to ensure it is safe and meets all the mechanical requirements you have. In fact, a mechanic who hasn't worked on the plane is often recommended to conduct the pre-purchase inspection because it's a fresh look at the plane. That doesn't mean that the mechanic who has been working on it is wrong or has overlooked something, but they have become familiar with it and a second pair of eyes never hurts. That said, if this plane meets your mission and you like it, then it doesn't sound like a bad idea. Just don't be afraid to walk away if you need to.

I need to update my location on this. Should I just send you a PM, @gsxrpilot?

Thanks for all of the feedback and thanks to @jlunseth for the detailed write up. What is the impact of not having the inter cooler? I've found a few that have the Merlyn waste gate but not the inter cooler.

For those that load their plane up with people and luggage, how close are you getting to max gross weight for takeoff? @CharlesHuddleston loading up with four adults and light bags had to put you near max gross weight, I assume?

Thanks! Thanks for the info. If I can find a 231 with the right useful load this may work after all.

Very nice! How much fuel do you put in there with all four seats loaded? Luggage?

Thanks for the feedback. What is your useful load, @whiskytango?

Thanks for the break down. The explanation of what the waste gate does actually helps a lot. I'm not sure I'll be flying into the FL's that often so I suppose the intercooler wouldn't be a deal breaker. Unfortunately I'm not sure that a 252 is in the cards right now, though I suppose that depends on what pops up. Thanks. Like I said above, I'm not sure a 252 is in the cards right now, which is why I've been researching the 231 a lot. It doesn't seem like it's too much to manage, though it's obvious there will be more to manage than on a 252. You're correct about needing useful load. I went back and re-read your post, and I apparently added a comma in my head (wishful thinking, maybe?) where you wrote, "...F, K Encore, and the Eagles." I read that as the K and Encore being two distinct aircraft. My mistake. That said, a lot of the 231's I've been looking at have indicated useful loads in the 1100lb range, though I'd have to ask to be sure on each one. The fact that so many others are making E's, F's, J's, and K 231's work with a family is also encouraging. Also, I don't see any Encores available on the major sites right now though I'm sure they pop up from time to time. A 252 with a low time engine would likely stretch the budget, but again it depends on what the final numbers would be.

Now that I know I can get away with a M20K that will meet the family requirements, I've begun researching them. Due to price point, I've been focusing most of my research on the M20K 231 models. There are several differences that I've noticed and wanted to get some feedback from everyone here. The forum's search tool has provided a lot of great information, in particular this thread: I have a few specific areas I'd like to focus on: Engine: The original 231 came with the TSIO-360-GB and most of them appear to have since been upgraded to the TSIO-360-LB. However, there are still a few aircraft floating out there with the TSIO-360-GB. What issues will result from this, if any? The horsepower rating is the same and the speeds should be relatively the same. Is a 231 that has an engine life sitting around 1,000 an issue with the TBO at 1800? That's around ~800 hours of engine life, assuming it makes it to TBO, which is ~6-8 years depending on how much is flown per year. Turbocharger: My understanding from the above thread is that two of the largest differences were in the way the turbocharger operated from the 231 to the 252. Most of the 231's I've been looking at have been upgraded to include the Merlyn waste gate and the intercooler. I also understand from reading that the Merlyn waste gate is still available while the intercooler is not. What other issues should I be looking at or concerned with when it comes to the turbocharger? Other Items: What other differences should I be looking out for when it comes to the 231 vs. the 252? I've thus far not found anything to be a show-stopper to prevent me from looking for and purchasing a 231, especially if they have the Merlyn waste gate and the intercooler upgrades. Examples: Here are some examples on Controller and Trade-A-Plane. I'd like general thoughts on them with regards to how they're equipped and their current asking prices. There are others on these sites as well, some with much lower engines, but some may not have a WAAS GPS or may not have the waste gate/intercooler upgrades. https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/163159477/1981-mooney-m20k-231-piston-single-aircraft https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20K+231&listing_id=2385509&s-type=aircraft

Congrats! I was actually going to call this guy and see if I could go see it. If you end up buying it, could I maybe have a look at it when you come to pick it up? It's been a while since I've been in a M20K and since I'm exploring the idea of one, I'd like to see one that's nearby.

Thanks, this is helpful. We can find a different stroller and we're already looking for a lighter weight Pack-N-Play so we'll check out the one you have. I've probably also over-estimated weights already, but I'd rather over estimate than underestimate. I didn't realize you dialed it back that much. What kind of speeds are you seeing when you're running at 9.5gph? Thank you for all the anecdotes and walking me through how you've accomplished this. It appears that the M20K is a viable option. Now it's a matter of finding the right one and going from there. I've been doing a lot of searching on the forums and reading. Thanks again to everyone for the advice, I'm looking forward to any other responses as well.

That's a great point. How much fuel burn do you plan for on take off/climb out? The M20K's have 75gal capacity, but if you only fill them to 50gals then you're saving 150lbs right there - more if you can get away with carrying less. Any other info you can provide on fuel burn, duration, recommended fueling amounts, etc. would also be helpful as I dive into this further. Thanks, this is really helpful. I figure I can find some lightweight Pack-N-Plays and stroller which will also add some payload capacity back. What prompted this was when the avionics shop quoted me $24k for the panel upgrade. Knowing I'd run out of weight quickly with the little one growing, I figured I could take that money and put it towards a bigger plane. If I can have a bigger, faster Mooney and still be able to put the family in it and safely travel, that's a win as far as I'm concerned.

That has been my general analogy as well, much to my disappointment. I was hoping I could get away with it in a K or Bravo but I think that's been more wishful hoping on my part.

How many here have traveled with their families that consist of at least young 1-2 kids (or dog) and the required gear that goes with it? Items such as strollers, Pack-N-Plays, usual luggage, etc. I know my M20C does not have the weight allowance for all of that and the physical space may or may not exist. Do other Mooneys? I'm potentially looking at selling the M20C in order to get something like a Piper Lance or equivalent because of the extra load allowances but if there's a Mooney that can accomplish that, I'd like to look at that as well. I'm obviously partial to Mooney. I'm not sure a Mooney that can handle this exists given that the J's and up have higher fuel capacities which brings down the payload further. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks for the replies. I sumped it again this afternoon and it looks like sealant as it's a liquid, not rust flakes, as @N201MKTurbo suggested. I will try what @carusoam suggested and wipe the upper inside of the fuel tank and see what comes out as that's an easy thing to do. One step at a time. The plane has been hangared since 2014 and it wasn't until about two weeks ago that it was moved to an outside tie down. I'm hoping to get it back into a hangar by the end of the year, but we'll see.

I don't see any rust around the fuel caps, and mine are connected by a plastic tube. I'll check a few more areas the next time I'm at the airport, but at this point I think @N201MKTurbo is probably right with the sealant.

I'll watch it over the next week or so. I'm hoping @N201MKTurbo is right and that it's a by-product of how long the plane sat, especially going from the desert southwest to the extremely humid southeast.

Thanks, I'll keep an eye on it then. I sump it back to back multiple times and after the first or maybe second time I don't see it anymore. I noticed earlier this week and didn't notice anything out of the norm during the flight. I noticed it again today after I fueled up.

Thanks. Is this something to be concerned about?

I've noticed this the last couple times I sumped the fuel during pre-flight. It only occurs on the left tank, and only happens the first or maybe second time I sump it. After that it's clear. The fuel itself is clean and this only appears when you first press it into the valve. The aircraft has spent the last nearly 10 years in the desert southwest and is now in south Florida. I assume it's a little rust around the area of the sump valve, but I'm not completely sure. Does anybody have any better guesses? Pictures attached.

Thanks, Paul. I always appreciate your input. Your setup is very nice and I'm glad your'e enjoying it! Can you expand a little on this? Specifically, what do you like about the IFD's over the Garmin series of GPS, aside from the installation costs?

Thanks, but a IFD 540/GTN 750 isn't in the plan. I fully intend to re-organize the panel at some point, but I don't want to do that until I decide on a way forward (see above reference later panel upgrades like a G3X or SkyView). @gsxrpilot What would you suggest? I haven't seen your panel yet but I did enjoy flying your C when you had it.

I went to an avionics shop yesterday and sat down with them. The guy there recommended going with a Garmin 175 and a Garmin GNC-225 which would provide the GPS and a second NAV/COM radio. That is less than a 650xi installed and around the same as the Avidyne IFD 440 installed. It looks like these are probably the best options to choose from at this point. I assume a CDI can be shared by multiple sources with the proper connections?