Aircraft for sale denied medical

[DXB]

35 minutes ago, Vance Harral said:

But I also think it's important to give counterpoints to the sort of guaranteed-gloom-and-doom outlook other folks make here, because that sort of panic is exactly what leads people to conclude they have to sell their airplane and give up flying, when it's not actually the case.

Definitely don't sell your airplane or give up. Definitely do prepare for the very worst from the FAA Medical Branch and act proactively.  If the process went smoothly for you without expert legal representation, you got very lucky.  Like many if not most bureaucrats, the docs at the NTSB medical branch care much less about actual service than creating an appearance of usefulness - their priority is finding he path of least resistance to creating a facade of protecting public safety.  Their fundamental laziness and indifference, which are the only things that would would make a licensed physician take that kinda job in the first place, also make them cave pretty easily when an astute attorney appears capable of creating extra work for them or exposing their rank incompetence before an NTSB judge.  My message is not just that the NTSB Medical Branch is often capricious in its actions against pilots but also that they have vulnerabilities that provide a means to manage the serious threat they pose to your medical certificate.  Also it is best to do everything possible to avoid the SI hellhole in the firstplace. 

[Rick Junkin]

Thread creep - This discussion makes me wonder how many folks are out there flying without a valid medical, or even a valid certificate. I know of one who was (he's no longer flying) so I have to assume there are more. There was a fatal accident case a couple of years ago where a guy never finished his training for a private certificate, never got a medical, but bought an airplane in which he ultimately killed himself and his girl friend. But that's not the kind of person I'm thinking of.

My question is more about people who are competent pilots that get caught up in the bureaucratic process and decide it's worth the risk to "do their own thing" regardless of what the system says. You know, anarchy. I'm not advocating for it, but I wonder how many folks have made that conscious decision. I'm guessing there are more than we might think. I can see where a person would make that call.

Anybody know where that kind of data might be available? It's probably hard to find outside of people who have lost their bet with the universe and got caught in an enforcement action. 

[dkkim73]

I think the problem with trying to characterize the proclivities of the FAA Medical Branch is that trends don't matter so much as the n=1 of your own experience. They might be reasonable and you could still be the exception; it's cold comfort if you can't fly or have to wait an unreasonable amount of time. And probably some people have suffered less from that Eye of Sauron than others and got away with things they could have been dinged on. 

I've been on both sides in the military version of this. Actually, 3 sides if you count the programmatic side and being accountable to multiple higher-up interests, sometimes with contradictory goals. 

We all want to be an exception to the rules, esp. dumb rules. I'm guilty. But practical safety of your flight and your passengers should be an important goal... You might be surprised how debilitated some people are by sleep apnea. Don't even know it for years. So I wouldn't not get it dealt with, regardless of what else you do. Dealing with absurd insurance company and bureaucratic regulations is another matter. I understand the idea of the sleep apnea guidelines, and at least there is a defined pathway to SI. But it is tedious. Basic Med really does seem to shine in this area. 

It is definitely worth being proative and managing your communication and disclosure. I'm not saying lie, I'm saying be proactive. 

I'd second finding the best AME partner you can, if you go class I-III. There are some services that will help you (I heard an interview with a former mil pilot become doc become AME who made an analogy with a checkride... I think he had a consulting company. Disclaimer, I've never used this). 

The advice about attorneys is interesting, and smells right. I'll definitely do that if I end up needing it...

 

 

[IvanP]

2 hours ago, Rick Junkin said:

Thread creep - This discussion makes me wonder how many folks are out there flying without a valid medical, or even a valid certificate. I know of one who was (he's no longer flying) so I have to assume there are more. There was a fatal accident case a couple of years ago where a guy never finished his training for a private certificate, never got a medical, but bought an airplane in which he ultimately killed himself and his girl friend. But that's not the kind of person I'm thinking of.

My question is more about people who are competent pilots that get caught up in the bureaucratic process and decide it's worth the risk to "do their own thing" regardless of what the system says. You know, anarchy. I'm not advocating for it, but I wonder how many folks have made that conscious decision. I'm guessing there are more than we might think. I can see where a person would make that call.

Anybody know where that kind of data might be available? It's probably hard to find outside of people who have lost their bet with the universe and got caught in an enforcement action. 

I think you are right in the assumption that there are folks who chose not to jump through some bureaucratic hoops and fly anyway. I also think that most of thses folks would be smart enough not to post anything about that on the internet so reliable data may be hard to find. Enforcement actions probably represent only small fraction of these instances. 

[toto]

4 hours ago, Rick Junkin said:

Thread creep - This discussion makes me wonder how many folks are out there flying without a valid medical, or even a valid certificate. I know of one who was (he's no longer flying) so I have to assume there are more.

There are quite a few people who let their medicals expire after the much-publicized effort to connect VA and SSA disability with pilot medical certification. Not because of any direct impact, but fear of the unknown. BasicMed was a path back to the cockpit for those pilots, many of whom are safe and competent - but afraid of G-men.