joepilot

Yup. $40,000 first yr of ownership for me. A well kept, clean '94 J & 110hrs of flying. But, new prop, alt, volt reg, mag OH and ADSB install. Fuel about 10% of expenses this yr. Expenses should decrease, but it is an airplane! $2000/mo or $24,000/yr is probablly bottom of the budget for any single. It's fun though!

No oil leaks & was working fine. But was 21 yrs old & had only been resealed. Blades needed some attention, so I erred on the side of safety electing an OH. But prop shop downed it. Prop not overhaulable. I know nothing about STC's, but I'm willing to bet the bureaucratic, self-preservation FAA was more concerned with paperwork & fees than real test flight data. Hartzell is a great company, but their Top Prop just didn't agree with my plane. I may be in the minority, but I have heard I'm not the only one with this issue. -Joe

I think this may be true. However, Hartzell says the indexing from the original McCauley does not need to be changed for the Hartzell. While re indexing MAY have helped, path of least resistance with greatest probability of successful outcome was return the Hartzell & install a McCauley. Original McCauley was sent in for overhaul but was "downed" for being out of limits. Went with Hartzell due to positive reports & price difference. YMMV.

Got a brand new (original equipment) McCauley bolted on & test flown today. Smoothness is back!!!!!! YeeHaa! (Plus the white spinner for Gary). I haven't heard anything yet from Hartzell (and may never), but for whatever reason, the Hartell was not smooth. The indexing SB does not apply to my plane & Hartzell says it was correctly indexed, but the old & new McCauley stops as shown in the pic, and the Hartzell stopped at 12/6. Who knows? But after investing more time & money, I'm happy. Thanks for all the input, guys.

Thanks Kevin. I'm not going to re-index the prop. Hartzell has been helpful & great to work with. At this point I'm going to cut my losses and order an original type McCauley.

Testwest, Thank you very much for the info & links! I'm trying to absorb as much as I can on this subject because I'm not happy with my situation, and I think I know what I'm going to hear from Hartzell...

He thinks there's a mechanical issue with the new prop. Here's about infant mortality: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve No one greased after first run. Not listed in the Prop Manual as recommended action. Had vibration issue on first flight. But thanks, I'll ask.

This is the Mooney SB version of the Lycoming SI 1304 I referenced earlier. I agree, I don't think these Bulletins apply if you have a factory A3; should already be set up correctly. In my case, plane was silky smooth with the McCauley and is NOT with the Hartzell. So, gotta be a prop issue, whether mechanical or a compatability issue.

There's a Lycoming Service Instruction (1304?) that addresses this, but is not applicable to my plane.

I know... Been a frustrating & expensive first year. ADS-B (my option), then volt reg/alternator, #2 nav-com dead (again), new ignition system, now brand new prop with issues. Hope it gets better. Grounded again, as I choose not to fly a single engine after a diagnosis of a problem with the prop hub.

Let me know how your Top Prop is. I'm having vibration issues with my new scimitar. See: "Hartzell Top Prop PIREP".

Had a 40 year professional aeronautical engineer run a diagnosis on my vibration issue today. Vibration levels are changing at fixed RPM's & he believes there's a mechanical, infant mortality issue inside the hub. Looks like I could be headed down a long road... Anyone dealt with Hartzell on warranty issues?

Thanks! Yes, checked the blade track & blade angles. Both perfect. Spinner appears motionless from side view when running. I believe there's one other position the prop can be mounted on the flange. May try it; couple hours of labor vs more drastic (expensive) actions.

Realized I need a link to post a vid. Hope this works. The vibration may just be a different frequency than the McCauley had, but it definitely appears, and feels, to shake things more. This vid is taken in climb. 2700rpm, full throttle, low altitude. As mentioned, vid didn't quite catch the higher frequency of the compass vibrating, but you get the idea. Shakes a lot more than I noticed the McCauley. 65-70%hp 2500rpm cruise reduces vibration, but not as smooth as old prop.

That's good information (and a cheap troubleshoot). Thank you! Detailed link: http://www.propbalancing.com/Vibe Analysis.htm

Ok, thanks! Wilco. Although I think my 2nd mech checking the dynamic balance checked this.

I helped with my install, and it seems with the flange "holes", there was only 2 options of the prop install position. No?

So, 12/6, 10/4 stoppage. Any mechanical rationale or tell tails behind this statistical phenomenon? As a non-mechanic, dumb pilot, seems like a 1 in 4 coincidence on a 4 cylinder 4 stroke. (But good odds vs roulette!)

With the new prop, more times than not, I believe. But at least more often than the McCauley did. What are you thinking?? IMG_4260.MOV

Thanks! Haha. Working on getting the McCauley back, but I don't think screwing that one back on is an option. Ill try try the vid again, but doesn't seem to load from my phone.

Thanks. I don't have the RPM restriction because I have a J model. Hartzell wants to see my dynamic balance printout. Also could be just the way the new prop's airflow is around the airframe. This could be worse than chasing down electrical issues! Here's a vid of my compass shaking during climb. The frequency is actually a bit higher than the iPhone recorded. Parts are gonna wear out... IMG_4260.MOV

Bryan(Mooney), Email sent. Thanks.

I've read some other reports on the Top Prop, but here's mine, for anyone who cares. I have a '94 J ("adopted" from Gary H) which had the McCauley since new. I have only flown it a few hours since install, but here's my opinion so far: TO & climb performance seems about the same. MAY be getting a couple knots extra in cruise. Did 2 four-way GPS tracks, but none were in great conditions. The Hartzell is 9 pounds heavier, but what's MUCH worse is I'm noticing a LOT more vibration in both climb & cruise. The old McCauley set up was silky smooth. Center post mounted compass shakes a lot in climb now. I've had it dynamically balanced, then rechecked by another mech with a different machine. Balance is perfect; at 0. Printout confirmed. Motor mounts in good shape, but have they "learned" the old prop? Anybody else ever see this? I've heard a/c manufacturers try to find the smoothest prop/motor combination & engineer accordingly, which may explain why an STC'd piece of equipment is not always as good. The only really good news so far is that the Hartzell was almost $3000 cheaper than the McCauley. Oh, and my new/OH ignition system now gives me 1/2 blade starts, even hot, & motor running cool, and running VERY well & balanced LOP! Oh well, pay your price & take your chances. -Joe

Cool thanks! Those suction cup ones from Sportys look good. But the slap on shades from Spruce probably take a little less room to store.

Thanks! I'm leaning towards the side of caution, too. Don't want the things heating up & wrecking my windows. These are made for airliners & they're referring to the #2 sliding side window of the Boeings, etc.