201er

What’s the point of having 2 engines if you forget to have fuel going through them? https://www.wesh.com/article/small-aircraft-crash-i-95-brevard-county/69665707 https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/563147

Same speed in a 201 at 6000. If higher altitudes aren’t required, a 201 ER can do 1000nm with comfortable IFR reserves (landing with close to 3 hours fuel). 150KTAS nonstop is comparable to 170 with a stop (on 1000nm). Basically triple priced Mooney is the price of pissing on the ground instead of in the air

More of a question of Missile vs Ovation then

Alan Fox knows. He's the one that cuts them up.

Mechanical issues are more of a question of when not if. I've already experienced repeated failures of certain systems to have my own stats on how long some components go between failures. For this poll, only base it on failures in operation (in the air or on the ground). Not, preemptive replacement or failing a checking at maintenance and being replaced. For in-flight failures, share your stories. For electrical system, vote based on any failures that entirely or partially hindered electrical system operation. So, not a radio failure but a master switch failure, alternator failure, wiring failure, voltage regulator, etc. Not a dead battery and won't start failure. But, if you had an electrical problem in flight because the battery stopped working. For vac system include any vac systems from the vac pump to the actual vac driven instruments. For powerplant, it doesn't have to be a full engine stop or necessarily even power loss. Vote based on a failure that affected power production, that you can feel in the cabin or at the controls, necessitated an urgent landing, or prevented further engine operation without maintenance after the failure. You can be more specific in the discussions. I'm particularly interested in hearing the number of hours of Mooney operation for pilots who've experienced the same failure at intervals (not the same thing breaking again immediately after being fixed). Basically take an average based on the number of Mooney hours flown divided by the number of times you've experienced a failure in that category. Don't include pilot error things like fuel starvation or exhaustion, turning something off accidentally, etc. The numbers aren't particularly exact, just round to the nearest category.

1st time was on my very first night cross country (with instructor). The instructor was so incompetent that he had no idea the entire time and I was just a newb, what would I have known at that stage? The tower was having a very hard time making out the radios at the out and return destination. Coming back to the uncontrolled home field, the moment the wheels touched the ground, everything in the cabin suddenly went dark. For a moment I thought we crashed. Then I realized the battery died. The alternator was already failed most of the flight long. I realized that if it the battery gave out any sooner, we wouldn't have been able to turn the airport lights on and would have been no electric trying to land some place. The instructor's inaptitude inadvertently made that first night cross country one of the most valuable and memorable lessons Another time was acting as safety pilot for simulated instrument flying in the owner's plane at night. Pilot puts the wheels down and then notices low voltage. So, he elected to discontinue the practice approach, leave the gear down, turn off everything but essentials, and return to his home field. One alternator loss in my Mooney was due to voltage regulator failure but it wasn't a memorable occurrence. The other one was IFR enroute to Cuba but it happened over central Florida. I elected to continue to Pompano Beach and try to get it serviced there. Descended below the clouds, cancelled IFR, turned off non-essentials, continued to Pompano. I let the tower know on initial call that I was having electrical problems so they would clear me to land early in case I lost comms. After landing, the radio was barely strong enough to get taxi to maintenance.

Here’s what the NTSB suggested in the report:

Sure, you can totally buy a brand new Mooney! You just have to buy along the entire factory and get it running to have it built

Is there any way that really old avgas can harden? Not sure if this is even real, but recently saw this about supposedly 50 year old jet fuel turning to jelly:

Let’s talk more specifically about chocks here

This may actually be the crux of the problem. If wheel chocks even make the checklist, it’s usually the preflight inspection checklist and not the before start checklist. After stopping for lunch, dropping a friend off, or getting fuel, nobody is going to go and perform an entire preflight all over again. Furthermore, in some conditions such as wind or incline, pilots may elect to leave the chocks in during preflight and then forget them later. I bet forgetting wheel chocks or even most of the remove before flight items is more rare at home base than when traveling. Might need yet another poll

What do you do when you've fired up, warmed up, configured all your avionics, briefed your passengers, got the weather and the ok to taxi, add power, not moving, add more power, and then realize you did it again! Forgot to remove the chocks. How often has this happened to you? I tried to be more inclusive with the poll options

I'm still waiting to hear someone boast they've never forgotten a cover or the chocks.

No, it doesn't. The Murphy 2011 LOI literally states that they need to be on during all aircraft operations which begin at engine start. So, I suppose you could take that to mean they can be off if you are towing or pushing the plane because it has not yet been started. But it clearly states that they need to be on during operation the entire time. The only time they can be switched off from startup to shutdown is when "it would be in the interest of safety". Section 91.209(b) states that a person may not "[o]perate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light system unless it has lighted anticollision lights." The term "operate" is defined in 14 C.F .R. 1.1 as "use, cause to use or authorize to use aircraft, for the purpose ... of air navigation ... " The FAA has stated that the term operate "applies to 'those acts which impart some physical movement to the aircraft, or involve the manipulation of the controls of the aircraft such as starting or running an aircraft engine.'" May 4, 1979, Letter to Delfina R. Mott from Edward P. Faberman, Acting Assistant Chief Counsel (quoting Amendment 91-43, 32 Fed. Reg. 9640 (1967)). As the FAA 's 1979 letter points out, an aircraft is being operated when its engine is turned on with the intent of using that aircraft to take off and engage in air navigation. See id As such, § 91.209(b) requires that an aircraft's anti collision lights be turned on once that aircraft's engine is started for the purpose of air navigation.

Many Mooneys don't have beacons. The FAA has stated that the strobes gotta be on from startup to shutdown except when "it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off" https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-91/subpart-C/section-91.209 https://www.faa.gov/media/13821

I haven’t but I did once ask for $20 after watching a pilot (with passenger) start up to remove his pitot cover for him

What items have you forgotten to remove before starting up? Did you realize them or takeoff with them still attached? Since we have some real cowboys on here, you can select multiple choices for the poll! Select all that occurred at least once. How you realize it? What did you do? Whah happened? How have you improved your process to prevent a repeat?

Probably more likely or just as likely to cause an accident as to prevent one which is why this isn’t common practice.

AOA indicator. Why go through all the guess work and math when this measures the very thing you are trying to guesstimate using airspeed, weight, and load factor? My 201 takes a 100 gallons so I’m used to flying at all kinds of weights. It is a pretty substantial difference in speed between empty and heavy. I don’t pay attention too much to the speed cause AOA indicator gives me consistent results.

The Nall report is out for 2023, now they call it the Richard MsSpadden report. Unfortunately he made the report this time around. Although I'm a bit confused how they qualify an accident like his. Does an accident like that (impossible turn loss of control) count for takeoff, approach, loss of control, mechanical, or all of the above? https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/air-safety-institute/accident-analysis/richard-g-mcspadden-report/mcspadden-report-figure-view/?category=all&year=2023&condition=all&report=true https://www.flyingmag.com/ntsb-blames-partial-power-loss-and-abrupt-maneuver-for-fatal-cessna-crash/

You obviously haven't flown in truly busy airspace. How come "Would cancel flight before launching VFR for IFR pick up" option got zero votes? It's a valid answer for anyone of this opinion.

The question is to establish what ceiling would you refuse to launch into even under the most favorable "other considerations". It is understood that it may be higher but not lower depending on other factors.