PapaPapa

Thank you all. I should be flying the aircraft this week and will take the opportunity to ask for much more details about this. I am glad that there is a consensus that this is very high especially considering the partnership has been running 15 years.. If they have this budget annually i certainly cannot cope with it.

And it seems x2 from i have read here and there about maintenance costs in europe (which include repairs along the years or found at the visit not just annual visit itself) Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk

Thanks dave, this is not a quote. These figures for "annual maintenance" not an annual check. And provided by the current share owner with the sentence in quotes. Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk

my understanding is there is no specific reserve (engine or otherwise) The engine is about 1 y.o. and has about 30h, prop is new (calendar TBO limit enforced here at some point)

Hello everyone, I'm looking at buying a share of a 1984 M20K 231 close to me (ELLX - Luxembourg). But I am surprised at the costs being shown, so I would appreciate some input. Fixed costs (insurance, hangar, CoA, GPS db) are said to be 5000 which seems ok But annual maintenance costs for an annual + 100h + 50h "should not go above 17000 EUR if no major work is done" It seems rather steep to me, but maybe it's me living in wonderland ? Any input appreciated PP

Hi Bill, a little off topic but wanted to revise a few things you said regarding JAA/EASA. - regarding prices to fly, unfortunately prices will be arounf what you mentioned. A good deal of it comes from very high prices for AVGAS (2 EUR/liter that is about 9.8 USD/US gal) - regarding staying current, you should be able to find an N-reg aircraft and instructor wihtout too much trouble. A number of schools across europe are specialized in providing traingin to get FAA licenses on N-reg aircrafts for european pilots (mainly due to the complexity or IR in europe's licensing) - regarding converting to a JAA/EASA license : PPL has one theoretical exam, CPL has 13 theoretical exams, IR has 7 and ATPL has 14. So a PPL VFR conversion should be fairly easy. IR or CPL are another matter, at least for now (EASA rules are being heavily lobbied by europes AOPAs to hopefully achieve something closer to FAA exams.) Pierre

well of course mounting on on the right side is easier.. The suction mount is ok on the passenger door (PA28) But i find it does not allow to take advantage of the applications capabilities (i use SkyDemon (VFR) although i don't know what the coverage for the US is) as it is able to warn me of airspaces ahead with frequency to contact, also P,D,R zones, notam areas, etc... (similar to the rail feature described in one of the posts above)

i tested an Xgrip + suction RAM mount for my Ipad mini in the PA 28 on the avatar picture. - suction is not convenient, i'll certainly buy a yoke mount and use the suction in the car :-) - Xgrip is ok and versatile although a dedicated one for the mini certainly holds it better

Thanks Charlie, I certainly agree with the "support them" idea although 200 EUR is much steeper than i thought :-) Plus i currently don't own a Mooney, i just wanted to know a few models better, see which one i should choose :-) So 200 EUR a pop... That'll be my price as i sent a mail to Troyes Aviation to get info...

Thanks both of you ! @Awful charlie : pretty comprehensive list ! so much so thath i dont really know what i'd need to order from this page ... Master Library is just everything ? or is it extra information not contained in other publications ?

Hi everyone, been a while since i came here ! first time i post on the new board... I was wondering if any of you knew where i could find what's in the title (POH for M20J and 252 in electronic format). I'd like to know these two better Thanks in advance for your help !

thanks for your valuable inputs (namely the 10 y.o. <=> worn out condition) @Luc : today was really a "general" question about planes that don't fly so much and you sometime find on the market, not about AOGs for 2 to 4 years :-). Still i'm "happy" to read that i should expect surprises anyway, then i know where i stand and that i should keep a few AMUs ready... @Byron : i read today about your misfortune and i'm confident all will turn out well, although it's just always "money issues" at the end of the day... right ? unfortunately it's not a limitless commodity :-)

Hi everyone, so here come a pretty newbie question... as i'm plannign to buy an M20J in the coming years, i already look at ads and all and i obviously have questions that pop from time to time. Some i found answers to , others not so easily. Please note that being in EASA land maybe rules are different on some points ? So about maintenance costs regarding limit times : engine use TBO : 2000h then need OverHaul or replacement. engin life span regardless of TBO : ?? then needs ?? propeller use TBO : 1500 or 2000h or maybe no TBO (depending on brand and model) then needs OH or replacement propeller life span regardless of TBO : ?? then needs ?? Then, are there other TBOs or life spans that need to be monitored and need maintenance ? I'm thinking airframe ? These questions have arisen when i noticed some low use time M20J (since OH) but with long calendar periods, so i'm thinking even though the engine has 300h, as it's 10 y.o. it will need OH way before TBO ? Thanks in advance for your help ! Pierre

in europe there are 2 sitting, owned by an FTO (according to add). Don't know if they'll fly again, such a pity they let the M20 rot like that :-( http://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=18214 These are nice project, but you must either have a lot of time and good skills or a lot of money :-) So kuddos and all the best with this project

i agree with both replies from greg :-)

depends.... M20,A,B,C,D,E,F,G,J,L,R,S, is a list of aircraft models and so is this one, but with more of a marketing sound to it : Mark21 ,Ranger, Master, Chaparral, Executive, STATESMAN, OVATION, and of course 201,205,ATS,MSE,PFM. so in a way, one is the previous of the other but indeed, Mooney was making the marketing and selling, not you Quote: allsmiles

thanks for sharing all the info. i'll continue digging about a hangar spot to have all my basis covered before making the jump, but at least i know there viable alternatives if parked outise to keep the plane in shape Hope Pilot, for my information, how long does it take you to "dress"/"undress" your M20 ?

Yup... i know and i usually say or write PA28 instead of P28A, but just wanted to indicate what iknow of thes things :-) Quote: jetdriven

just a copy/paste, but i had this strange experience.... the list of topic showed was -for some- parts of posts of a different topic. Quite weird :-) There were no visble error shown (Colf Fusion or anything...) the 3rd and sixth topic are words from posts in the topic "Say Type" here's the the text : Diagnostician needed! 20 Sandy Nov 07 11, 7:53 PM by Sandy Any thoughts on 115 jshill Nov 06 11, 8:55 PM by Jeff_S "Mike Twenty Papa" I guess I should be saying "Mike Twenty Tango" now... 9 skyking1 Nov 05 11, 8:46 PM by jbreda ~~The view is better from 11,000 feet ~~ 3 panther1400 Nov 04 11, 2:35 PM by N4352H Where are you flying this weekend? 57 mooneygirl Nov 04 11, 1:36 PM by Mitch 436N? 34 colojo Nov 03 11, 9:04 PM by daveydog tried LOP for the first time - have some questions 109 bd32322 Nov 03 11, 7:05 PM by KSMooniac

i agree that it's part of a plane's natural habitat... But seing the pictures of the 65k M20J with rusted pitot tube and gear had me worried. As to how long it would last.... i'd say as long as i live here i suppose. I asked around in the club about he possibilities and how the owners were doing to find hangar spots. It seems it's a pretty hush-hush taboo subject (i dont see why but well...) and was said that some epople have been waiting for hangar spots for the last 5 years... As for the costs... i know that outside parking is 1,25 € per ton and per period of twenty-four hours (so would amount to approx. 60EUR/month counting 1.5 ton for M20J). I don't know the price of a hangar spot but i don't expect below 100-150€/month

i can drive to Trier, but certainly fly to zweibrucken :-) coming week-end seems like an option for me although weather forecast can still change...

From what i know of air rules in France (and probably JAR airspace) the ATC enters a "in-air FPL" when you transit in controlled airspace. For an FPL, you must enter an ICAO aircraft type, so you should reply with an ICAO aircraft type. Dunno what they are for mooney, but from waht i've read i guess M20P and M20T :-) And as i say "pee ay twenty 28" for a PA28, i'd certainly say "em twenty pee", although neither are good phraseology

Hi there, Say i finally buy my Mooney one day. Say there's no hangar spot in my home base (8min from home) and i could not find one at less than 60 to 90min drive I know for some (most ?) of you, an outside parking is a deal breaker when buying, but options are limited... What precautions, equipments, etc... should i be using to keep the bird safe and in good condition, knowing it can be pretty moist out here in the autumn/winter ? for ex today : METAR: ELLX 141020Z VRB03KT 0050 R24/0150N FG OVC000 01/01 Q1026 NOSIG long-TAF: ELLX 140500Z 1406/1512 14003KT 0100 FG FZFG VV/// BECMG 1409/1411 4000 BR BKN005 BECMG 1415/1417 7000 NSC BECMG 1500/1502 2000 BR BECMG 1502/1504 0100 FZFG VV/// BECMG 1508/1510 4000 BR SCT003 Thanks in advance for the insights :-) Pierre

unfortunately i probably won't be able... But not biggie as i don't fly a mooney :-) @Awful_Charlie : actually, although still not advertised on the website, there is a "discounted" 60 EUR handling for "aviation sportive". I don't remember if it's weight based or if it's for airclub aircrafts, or what, but i know it exists. If you ever need, send a mail to the GAT address and they'll tell you what's what. Pierre

Althuogh i have a busy weekend planned, I'd love to chime in (with the club's Cirrus though...) if i can join without getting a divorce and not too far from ELLX (Luxembourg). That would allow me to -at last- see an M20J from close, and especially Magnus' with whom i've not been able to ailgn schedules and meet ! :-) I'll monitor the topic Pierre