Greg Ellis

7 hours ago, 47U said:

Certainly have the installer review the electric trim system for installation/operation.  

But, being able to manually trim from stop to stop ‘with really no issue’ doesn’t lend itself to much confidence.  It really should be smooth as butter.  What friction you feel while manually trimming could be enough to limit effectiveness of the electric trim.

The jackscrew should be cleaned first, then the light layer of grease is appropriate.  This doesn’t sound like your problem to me.  

One thing that doesn’t get any attention during the annual or 100 hr lube schedule is the ‘trim housing’ in the tail.  It is greased and then sealed during manufacture at the factory.  If it’s never been taken out and cleaned, reshimmed, and greased, it very well could create the friction that is giving your electric trim system trouble.  

Good luck…

Thank you for this response.  I will take to my A&P about this as well.

11 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

What is it?  What's that mean the CAFE Mooney?

It may have something to do with this.

CAFE Foundation - Wikipedia

So, I went to the plane this weekend.  I opened up the tail area and exposed the jackscrew in the trim system.  It definitely was not gummed up at all.  The threads were clean.  They did seem to have some grease on them because it got on my fingers when I touched the screw.  However, how little grease is too little?  There certainly was not enough to be what I would call greasy or gummy.  I could see the peaks and valleys of all the threads, etc....

I can run the trim manually from stop to stop with really no issue.  It occasionally feels tighter in spots but nothing that I would have even thought twice about before getting the electric trim.  I tried the electric trim again and it ran it nose down and it ran smoothly all the way.  It will not go nose up on its own.  It will for a moment but then stops and needs manual assist.

I spoke to the installer and he thought there may be an issue with the actual installation so he is going to take a look at it when he is able.  But I guess my question is....should the jackscrew be coated in grease or just an extremely thin layer?  I have an extremely thin layer for sure.  It is not dry but certainly not a lot of grease.

28 minutes ago, PT20J said:

It sounds like there is too much friction in your trim system. The trim motor works harder trimming nose up than down on the ground because the jackscrew is lifting the tail. In flight, aerodynamic loads relieve some of this. There is a run time spec for the GFC 500 trim from stop to stop that should have been tested during installation. 

The Mooney trim system should be lubricated every annual inspection, especially the tail jackscrew. Some older models have a friction adjustment on the trim wheel that may be set too tight.

Skip

Thank you for this information.  I will talk to my shop about this.

I wasn’t sure where to put this topic.  However, I had the GFC 500 installed and the electric trim as well.  I have the up down switch on my yoke.  The electric trim is not working well when the autopilot is off and needs manual assistance when going nose up.  Nose down it seems to be okay.  The auto pilot is working great with no issues and reports no faults at all.

I printed out Garmin’s trouble shooting page on if the electric trim does not run and will go through it this weekend but I was wondering if anyone had any advice on where to look.  I was thinking that maybe the trim system needed lubrication which I think is a big job.  Do the belly panels have to be removed to do this?  But if the autopilot flies well then is it a lubrication issue or something else?

Any advice would be appreciated so I can try to guide the correction of this process with my maintenance shop.  Airplane is a 63 C model.

Thanks.

On 3/19/2023 at 1:09 PM, MoMooneyMoProblems said:

Thanks Skip! Setting both to M20P worked. Thought I had tried that already but guess not 

Glad it worked for you, however, on my Garmin Pilot I have the logbook set to M20C and the Aircraft for filing set to M20P and it works just fine.

12 hours ago, davesly said:

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/newsroom/press-release/aviation/garmin-receives-additional-gfc-500-autopilot-certifications-3/

I just noticed that there was a recent (2021) AD that now covers pre-1965.  I assume this means I do not need to replace my ailerons.

 

I did not have to replace my ailerons.  Nor should you.  Look at the supported aircraft which includes the 1962 C model.

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/604257#additional

24 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

It was 17 years ago that you bought your Mooney? Wow, time flies.

Run your C model the way Greg suggests and you'll do fine.

Yep.  And looking at my logbooks it was actually 18 years ago.  February, 12, 2005 was my first flight in my Mooney. I followed your advice and never looked back.  I thank you for helping me make that decision so long ago that has brought so much happiness and excitement and fond memories into my life.

Your title says a 1953 C, not 63 but we get it.  There is no alternate air in the cockpit on my 1963 C model.  Also, when I bought my C model 17 years ago, there was no ELT switch in the panel.  I have since had one installed when I upgraded the ELT a few years ago but originally mine did not have one either.

My climb is a bit different than yours.  I do not pull the prop back, nor do I pull the throttle back until I am leveling off at whatever altitude I am leveling off at.  I do have to lean a bit as I climb and prior to 4000 feet because I have the richer version of the carburetors that were available for our engine and to avoid running a little rough in the climb with an overly rich mixture I have to begin leaning sooner than 4000 feet MSL.

By keeping my prop and throttle full, I can climb at a shallower angle at a higher airspeed and my cylinders stay below 400 in the climb unless it is just a blistering hot Texas day.

1 hour ago, Niko182 said:

Aero comfort in san antonio

Not exactly near Santa Barbara...

But probably the best!!!

6 hours ago, Lax291 said:

They told me $15K for labor, which translates to 120hrs.

That does seem very high.  I just looked at my invoices for my GFC500 install.  For the install itself, labor was 50 hours.  They installed a G5 Attitude indicator and removed my vacuum system for another 10, moved my EDM 900 over to the pilot side, relocated my audio panel installed and new Mid Continent Clock/timer/OAT and fabricated a co-pilots panel to fit the relocated instruments and that was only 20 hours more.  So I got all that for 80 hours labor and they want 120 hours to just put in a GFC 500.  Yep, seems a little high.

4 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I don't see why not.  Was it an option in 63? You may be able to do it with nothing more than Mooney factory drawings.

I don’t think it was an option in 63.  I think it was first installed in 1965.  Don’t quote me on it but I remember seeing that somewhere.

3 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

One of the best suggestions I’ve received was to have the current owner fly the airplane first, with the prospective buyer sitting in the passenger seat.  That accomplishes two things:

1.) the buyer can observe and test the avionics without being distracted by flying the airplane (also much safer this way)

2.) the buyer can also see how the current owner has treated the airplane by observing him/her in action.

After landing, change seats and test fly it yourself.

I did just this when I purchased my Mooney about 17 years ago.  It went a long way in helping me make my decision.  Although I don't think we changed seats because the 63 C model has brakes on the pilot side only and he wanted that control, as well as the fact I had never flown a Mooney before.

If you go to mooneypilots.org they say they are under new ownership on the first page.

9 hours ago, redbaron1982 said:

Hi all,

I need to update the databases in my Mooney (it has a GNS 430W and an obsolete MX20).

Also I use foreflight.

My analysis is that it makes more sense to get Jeppessen databases (nav, obstacle and terrain) that go for around 500usd per year and that would allow me to use them in the 430W, Foreflight and (not sure yet) navdata and charts for the MX20.

Am I correct? Garmin databases go for almost the same amount and they would cover only the 430W.

Is there anything I would lose by using Jeppessen's over Garmin's?

Does that subscription to Jepp include obstacle and terrain?  I was stuck with Jepp for a while because I had a GNC300XL and the Navdata was only offered for it by Jepp.  When I went to renew after updating my navigators, I spoke to a guy at Jeppesen and he stated that it only included the NavData and not obstacle or terrain.  I switched to Garmin charts because for my two navigators I was able to get Nav, obstacle and terrain for $669.  For just Navdata only from Jepp it was $663 for two navigators.  I would have had to add Obstacle and Terrain from Garmin individually which would have raised the price for the Jepp considerably more than Garmin.

Also, I plugged in the MX20 into Jepp and they said it was not covered.

11 hours ago, M20Doc said:

There are just far too many things wrong in this video.  I guess he’s not too proud of his Ovation.

And how does he reattach the scat hose that attaches to the side of the lower cowling with one hand holding the cowling and the other holding the screwdriver?  It is one thing to take it off because you can just loosen the clamp and pull the cowling away but reattaching it is another thing and he fails to show that.

15 hours ago, T. Peterson said:

Just out of curiosity and a a forlorn hope that Mooney will make a comeback, I have two questions:

Is it possible for Mooney to produce a no frills E, J or K and sell it for 500,000.00?

If it was possible, would there be a market?

By no frills, I mean cloth seats, and basic IFR. Dual Nav Comms and one gps. No deice, air conditioning, parachute, leather wrapped yokes etc.

I am not sure who this would be marketing towards.  A glance at controller.com I can get a 2007 Ovation with a full glass panel and all the bells and whistles for $319,000.  I am not sure I personally would go for an E, J, K for $500,000 just because it is new, if I can get something with so much more for so much less.  This is just one example.  

So, if I have the money burning a hole in my pocket, and saw two panels, side by side, one with what you suggest and the other with full glass, autopilot, and comfortable interior for $200,000 less, even though it is 16 years old (at first glance it looks newer than your example) I think I know which I would choose but that is just me personally.

When I first got my Mooney and really knew nothing about anything other than flying it, I thought my battery was great because it always started the airplane.  It was going on 4-5 years old but the plane still cranked over in one or two blades and felt strong so I thought I was golden.  One night, coming home and almost at my home airport, I lost my generator (now an alternator).  Well, suffice to say, 5-10 minutes later I landed dark.  No lights, no radio, no nothing.  Thank the Lord that our engines have magnetos so the engine kept running.  I really thought I had a great battery.  It lasted 5-10 minutes.  So anyone who is happy that their 6, 7, 8 year old battery still starts their airplane, do a capacity test on it and see just how strong it really is.  My $.02 which really gets you nothing these days.

8 hours ago, 201er said:

I’ve heard that the biggest relief from air sickness is to fly the plane. 
 

But if that doesn’t work,

One of the greatest pilots to have ever lived and one of the greatest fighter pilots of WWII was plagued with motion sickness when he began his flying career.  The man was Bob Hoover.  He got through it by doing exactly this....flying and flying a lot.  Not saying it will work for everyone but apparently it worked for him.  He did it by pushing himself through aerobatic maneuvers and flying at the edge of the envelope in his airplanes.  Not sure I would suggest that to just anyone but maybe if you just keep at it and fly as much as you can, this too shall pass.

57 minutes ago, BDPetersen said:

There is a company AeroTouchups listed in the Google machine. It is in Titusville FL and it may have been the place that I used to get some paint a few years ago. I’m hedging a bit because I can’t lay my hands on the info on exactly who I used, but that sounds right.

Aerotouchups.com.  They are expensive though.  I think $54.90 for a spray can of Matterhorn white is a little expensive but it is for an airplane, afterall.....

Maybe time to find another shop....

This may not matter but the original post mentioned he had a Battery Minder 12V-8A-CEC2 and has a Concorde battery.  There are three types of Battery Minders with this designation.  There is the 128CEC2-AA-S5 which is specific for Concorde Batteries and the 128CEC2-AA-S2 which is specific for Gill batteries.  There is also the 128CEC2-AA-S3 which is specific for Hawker Odyssey batteries.  I am not sure how important it is to use the correct one for the application, but it must be for Battery Minder to develop three different units depending on the battery model.

With that being said, it does sound like what others have said and there is a charging issue after the airplane is started.

Not sure if it was just a mistake but the photo that is Captioned Mooney 301 in the article 70 years of Rocky History is not a 301.  It is just another photo of a TBM 700.  There was only one Mooney 301 ever built and flown and that was the prototype, and that photo is not it.

Great articles though.  Thank you for posting them.

20 minutes ago, PT20J said:

It would be a configuration mode setting. Hold down the knob while powering up the G5. Rotate the knob to move around the menus and press it to select. The last menu option is Exit configuration mode. I haven’t changed it, so I’m not sure which menu it’s in and the Installation Manual doesn’t say — probably Attitude or Display. Unlike many certified avionics, the G5 installation manual can be downloaded from Garmin's website.

Thank you!!!

I looked through the manual on the G5 and could not find how to switch from single cue to dual cue.  How do you make the switch?