Greg Ellis

AircraftSpruce.com sells one of these.  I have not used it because it is damn pricey for a glorified box cutter with an attachment to it but they are available.

Tempest AA471 Oil Filter Media Cutter | Aircraft Spruce

I have a 63 C model with an O-360-A1D.  What is the lubricant of choice for the slip joint between the exhaust down tube and the rest of the exhaust?  I have heard people use mouse milk but McFarlane makes their DAM exhaust lube as well.  Is there a preferred lube for this?  Thank you.

23 minutes ago, Mooney-Shiner said:

So the shop eventually determined that the cylinder was unairworthy (despite initial positive assessment)? What are you going to do with it? Re-plate with nickel or chrome and reinstall? Or replace with new?

Thank you for keeping us updated 

I am replacing it with a new cylinder.

@Centeno You may try here.

200HP INTAKE DUCT M20 E&F - 600115-005 — LASAR

They say they have it but it may not be in stock but they may be able to help you get one.

You can buy seat belt extenders on Amazon and other sites.  It just depends on the type of attachments you have.  There are different types.  I have one from a company that was called Free The Flyer but they are apparently no longer in business.  I couldn't find them online.

11 hours ago, PT20J said:

Clearly the rings weren't sealing well but it may not be the ring's fault (at least before they lost their temper); it's probably that the barrel is just worn out and maybe out of round. The rings are at the top of the cylinder when you do the compression test, but most of the oil loss would be as the piston travels up and down the barrel. Also, an oily cylinder will often have great compression because the oil seals the ring barrel interface during the test. It's just another reason why compression tests are not a definitive indication of overall cylinder health.

When I took the cylinder back, the shop did a quick measurement and as I said earlier, the bore was at its maximum limit.  They called me later after actually doing close inspection and the bore was also out of round.

11 hours ago, Bolter said:

How did you establish which cylinder was consuming all the oil?  Or the reverse question, how do you know all the other cylinders are not part of the problem?  Did I miss that there was one cylinder with low compression or other outstanding measurement?

-dan

What was missed is the fact that the number one cylinder was pooled with oil and both upper and lower spark plugs were wet.  I showed photos earlier.

13 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Does that mean the ring has been overheated?

That’s what I would have suspected but he didn’t say.  I should have asked but I was just kind of happy to possibly find a solutIon.  I’ll ask.  Though my EDM 900 never showed any issues of overheating or any other problems.

An update on my cylinder.  I dropped it off at the overhaul shop this morning.  It is nice that they are only an hour away by car and I saved the shipping.  Anywho, while I was there the mechanic measured the cylinder bore and it was at its limits.  Also the rings were bad.  Visually they were okay.  But he took one and twisted it expecting it to break and it never did.  Just kept twisting on itself.  I was told that they eventually should snap but mine never did.  

So, they are going to have a cylinder ready for me next week.  Hopefully I can put this to rest and get back in the air just in time for my annual in January. 

I don't know if this helps you at all, but this is my panel in my 63 C model with a 530W, GNC355 and GFC500 all in the same column and has a small amount of wiggle room at the top.  It may give you an idea of the dimensions you need to do what you want.

@Echo See above ^^^^^^^^

9 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Maybe the cylinder is just worn out. The piston looks like there has been a lot of blowby. I think the varnish on the skirt is caused by hot combustion gasses getting past the rings and oxidizing the oil. How many hours on it and can you make out any crosshatching or is the cylinder pretty smooth (it's hard to tell in the pictures)?

I cannot make out any cross hatching.  I would have to check the logs to get you info on time in service, etc…. I can check tomorrow.

So, I was able to get with my mechanic.  We tried the ring flush and it seemed to pass by the piston and into the sump normally.  So we elected to pull the cylinder.  All rings including the oil control ring were fine.  Nothing broken.  The piston had an interesting mark which you can see in the photo.  The whole top of the piston was black with carbon except for this one spot that you see in the photo.  I have also attached a photo of the cylinder bore.  I have more if needed.  So we are sending the cylinder off for overhaul and we will see.

7 minutes ago, M20F said:

You cannot check the oil ring without pulling the jug.  What is the compression?

I have been working on a similar issue with my #2.  1 quart an hour, normal CHT, EGT, compression, etc. pulled the cylinder and the oil ring is fine.  Advice from some was oil ring others was 1 quart with good compression is too much for blow by with good compression.  
 
No visible cracks or other issues.  Waiting to see what the machine shop says.  Guessing valve guide.  I love airplanes…..

The cylinder just had the exhaust valve replaced.  I wonder if something went wrong there.

6 minutes ago, M20F said:

You cannot check the oil ring without pulling the jug.  What is the compression?

I have been working on a similar issue with my #2.  1 quart an hour, normal CHT, EGT, compression, etc. pulled the cylinder and the oil ring is fine.  Advice from some was oil ring others was 1 quart with good compression is too much for blow by with good compression.  
 
No visible cracks or other issues.  Waiting to see what the machine shop says.  Guessing valve guide.  I love airplanes…..

Compression on that cylinder is 68/80 cold so I suspect it would be much better when hot.  All other things are in the normal range including CHT's, EGT's etc...

3 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

When Rich said “in annual”, that means that there is a current annual inspection within the past 12 calendar months.  If the aircraft is “out of annual” it is not legal to fly.

Thanks.  I misunderstood.  Thanks for the clarification.

Thanks to everyone who have responded.  I appreciate all of the advice.

28 minutes ago, PT20J said:

If I did the ring flush and thought it made a difference, I would then do an extensive run up including some full power runs and then borescope it again to see if there is oil in the cylinder. If not, then I'd fly it a couple of hours orbiting the airport at perhaps 3000' AGL (I did this when I put on the new engine) and land and check oil level and borescope the cylinder again.

Thanks.  I believe this is what I will try this weekend then go from there.

28 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Your A&P IA cannot ground an airplane that is still in annual. It is up to you weather it is airworthy to fly.

The airplane is not in annual.  It is just their advice to not fly it.

5 minutes ago, PT20J said:

BTW, if you don't want to bother mixing up Mike's flush brew, my IA says he's had good success freeing up stuck rings with Marvel Mystery Oil. (MMO is mineral oil, Stoddard solvent, a little TCP and some dichlorbenzene (plus red dye and peppermint fragrance ) I'm not a chemist, but according to Wikipedia, dichlorbenzene softens and removes carbon from metal surfaces.

Marvel_Mystery_Oil.pdf 429.89 kB · 0 downloads

I do have some of that in my hangar.  By the way, a conundrum, if I try the ring flush and it sounds like the flush is going into the sump then the instructions say the ring is clear but how do I still know that it is not a broken oil control ring letting the solvent go by?  I was told not to fly it so I can't tell if the oil burn issue is resolved either.

1 minute ago, 47U said:

Did the increase in oil consumption happen gradually, or was it a sudden onset?

Does the airplane have a history of being a hangar/ramp queen?  

How many tach hours/calendar time since the last major overhaul.

Do you have any oil analysis data?

Oil analysis is done every oil change and I have attached the most recent report done right before the offending flight.  I usually fly over 100 hours a year however the plane has been down multiple times for avionics, autopilot, etc...  But it normally flies about 100-150 hours per year.  It is definitely not a hangar queen.  The current engine is about 1400 hours since overhaul but it has had cylinder work done on it over the last 4-5 years.  This particular cylinder was off at the annual (January) for an IRAN and exhaust valve replacement.  There was nothing mentioned about any other issues.

The increase in oil consumption started last year and was using about 1 quart every 4 hours or so compared to 1 quart every 12-14 hours previously.  This was within Lycoming specs so I was not concerned and just monitored it.  However, it made rapid leap on one 3 hour cross country.  I was about 5 minutes from landing and the oil pressure went from 64 or so which it usually runs down into the upper 50's.  The EDM 900 alarmed me.  I made the landing at my destination and had to add 4 quarts of oil to bring it up to 7 on the stick.  I flew home and actually the oil burn was better.  I made it back with 5 quarts and I have not flown it since from the advice of the A&P's.  

N6541U-230608.pdf

I have a C model with an O-360-A1D.  I am going through a lot of oil (4 quarts on a 3 hour flight for instance and landed with only 3 quarts on board).  Borescope showed a lot of oil in the #1 cylinder with both top and bottom spark plugs being wet.  The attached photo is just one of many showing the oil in the cylinder.  I have spoken to 3 A&P/IA's.  They suspect a broken oil control ring.  They all say the cylinder needs to come off.  I know that can be an invasive procedure and if it must be done then it must be done.  However, is there any way to see if it truly is a broken oil control ring or something else like a stuck ring or crud buildup causing the issue.  I am reaching on this not knowing exactly what to be looking for.  All mechanics say don't fly it but my regular mechanic at my airport is so backed up it has already been since August waiting for him to work on it.

Would the controversial Savvy Ring flush do anything for me?  Is it worth a try?

Thanks for any advice.

@Glen Davis If you choose to buy a battery minder, make sure you get the one specific for your type of battery.  They make specific ones for Concorde as @Marc_B showed in his post and one's for Gill and others.

A little late to the game here (and I see it has been resolved), but I was curious about the EDM 730 and 830 being primary.  This is direct from JPI.

Hello Greg,

No, the EDM 730 and 830 are advisory instruments only. Primary ship’s gauges are required to remain in place and be operational.

Regards,

JP Instruments, Inc.

Sorry to hear about you needing new cylinders.  Just a point, in my C model I will see 0 ppm at all times (taxiing, take-off, climb, cruise).  The one time I saw 10 ppm was right after work was done on the exhaust during an annual and it turns out there was a leak in the exhaust.