GeorgePerry

Long time since I posted on MS...Living in Louisville KY flying for UPS Airlines. I serve on the board of a youth non profit that helps kids learn to fly. Please check out our webpage and buy a few raffle tickets to help support youth flying and flight training scholarships. George Perry Captain UPS Airlines

Its that time of year, and if you like to support worthy causes please consider purchasing a few raffle tickets (link below). Flight Club 502 is volunteer run, so 100% of your donation goes right to the programs and flight training scholarships. https://rafflecreator.com/pages/33010/win-a-cessna-150-or-$20000

Posting on behalf of a air force buddy who just got orders overseas. This is a really nice plane that I've personally flown and its one of the fastest "J's" I've ever been in. He's owned it Since 2018 and purchased from a Navy pilot in Chesapeake VA. Prior to that it was owned by a UPS 747 Captain. Its always been professionally maintained by FAR Part 145 Mooney repair shops. Needs nothing but a new owner. Check flightaware.com to see how much its been flying.Basic Specs:1978 N201XK, M-20J SN 24-0496. $109,000. Fast efficient traveling machine w/300 hrs in last year. TTAF 5816, SFRM 849, PSOH 1299, flying weekly. GAMIs w/EIS. EDM-830. Avidyne IFD-440 GPS Nav/Com w/NavWorx ADSB, Garmin GTX-330ES Transponder, Garmin GMA-340 Comm panel, Apollo SL-30 NAV/COM. S-Tec S30 Autopilot, Shadin Fuel Flow, Rosen Visors. 54 gallon fuel bladders (no leaks...ever!). Annual good through 5/20, Text, call or email Ken at 803-549-6143 or francisF16@yahoo.com.

This is my last post and them I promise to drift back into obscurity again. I initially commented because I was so disappointed with Mooney's leadership back in 2014 when they were flush with Chinese cash that they didn't do the thing that would have almost certainly made them competitive again; Increase useful load and install a BRS. Instead the CEO dismissed my counsel and went a different direction. I am largely lamenting at what "could have been" if he'd only listened. Sucks b/c I'd loved it if Mooney could have evolved into a competitive manufacturer that could compete head to head with Cirrus. They didn't and the rest is history. Now Cirrus is the only "real" choice in the HP SE piston market place. I'm I in love with its looks...No. Am I in love with the way it "hand" flys...No. Is is the best option when weighing a variety of factors (Safety, Speed, UL, Price, Supportability, Comfort, Spouse peace of mind) Yep. All that being said, I wish Mooney had gotten their act together so "some day" I might have the option to come back to the brand. With this weeks announcement chances are that'll never happen.

My airplane was sold new (with TKS installed) with 1192 pounds UL. Aftermarket AC brought it down some but the prop change (MT composite) brought it back up. No doubt cost is a big factor. A good SR22 starts at 200K and goes up from there. I recently entered into a 2 way partnership. Its working out really well and that's made ownership costs very manageable. I've done two annuals, and both have been under 5K at Cirrus Service Centers, not an independent shop. Knock on wood, but nothing's broken and its been extremely reliable. Probably because I fly it alot.

Sorry you're right...Meant to say TKS was available in late 2003 early 2004

Late 2003 TKS (not FIKI) was an option. A/C is an aftermarket add on. MT prop weighs 55 pounds, 25 pounds lighter than a three bladed Hartzell.

2003 Gen 1 updated to Gen3 specs with Avidyne with STEC55X and dual Garmin 430W, Garmin Flight Stream 210, active traffic, ADSB, XM WX and ADSB WX

I spoke to Richard about his turbo / engine failure. He told me the first indications of the engine's demise happened well above the minimum CAPS deployment altitude, so if he'd had a chute he could have walked away uninjured, like the Walmart CEO who had a low altitude engine failure. (Video below) Mooney has only sold two "ultras" in the first two quarters of 2019. Cirrus has sold over 200 in the same timeframe. I suppose there will always be a handful of folks who make choices based on unique criteria...but the market has spoken and the numbers are clear.

Not really....Some posters seem to forget. I've owned several Mooneys and I really enjoy the way they look and fly. I'm not beating up on the brand. Two points I'm trying to make are (1) Mooney leadership was blind to the changing market and consumer demand. Now they are out of business. The primary reason Mooney is now defunct is (2) CAPS gives Cirrus pilots an additional layer of safety Mooney's, Bonanza's and Cessna HP SE planes just don't have. Those are unassailable facts and anyone who wants to take issue with those two statements have at it. As for the "salesman" comment. I'm don't work for Cirrus anymore so I don't have a dog in the fight. I'm speaking from my own personal experience and seeing many pilots perish needlessly while their Cirrus flying counterparts have a tool that has saved 186 people so far. https://www.cirruspilots.org/copa/safety_programs/w/safety_pages/720.caps-saves-and-fatal-accidents.aspx?1 I have no issues with anyone who choses a Mooney over any other brand. Just go into it with eyes wide open and understand the additional risk that comes with the decision.

As I said, others milage will vary. But you should ask Richard Simile (long time Mooney Sales Guy with Premier) what he thinks about BRS systems, and he survived. https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/roadwarriorvoices/2015/04/25/pilot-celebrates-surviving-crash-by-filming-his-plane-burn/83298100/ Its easy to say what you're going to do if a worst case scenario happens, its another thing to do it. As pilots we never rise to the occasion, we sink to our training. Most GA pilots don't train or practice low alt engine outs. So most GA pilots are likely to respond poorly if the situation occurs. A BRS gives average pilots an above average chance of surviving uninjured. The NTSB data proves this beyond any doubt. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2016/july/24/how-cirrus-reduced-accidents

Fair enough...I'll be sure to add this conversation to my long list of personal failures

The costs associated with maintaining a proven safety system are minuscule compared to what someone's life is worth. As an earlier poster pointed out there are several Mooneyspace members who are no longer with us that could be here today if they'd had the option to pull a chute. But the choice to fly a SE plane without a parachute system is an individual one and based on risk tolerance. When I was younger, I didn't think twice about flying a SE plane, day, night, good weather, bad etc...But as I've gotten older (and I hope wiser) my risk tolerance is not as high as it once was and I don't fly in SE planes anymore unless they have a BRS. But of course others milage will vary.

I get it. You're decisions and justification are based on emotions and personal preference, and not informed by facts or data. Just say that. Emotional justification is just as valid, on an individual basis, as any other method for forming an opinion or making a decision. But emotions aren't a good foundation to underpin a sound business model. And that's my point. I wish the Mooney CEO had listened to me 5 years ago. If they'd prioritized evolution to match market and consumer demands, they'd still be making great looking and great flying airplanes.

I'm not sure how you define "not even close" statistically or with factual data. Your argument conveniently does not include what you plan to do if your engine quits at night or over mountainous terrain, or low altitude? Heck, what if it quits on a VFR day at 10000 ft. You've still got to be on your "A" game to have a positive outcome. This doesn't even get into the "soft" topics and the psychology of what happens when your non-flying spouse or friend decides that they don't want to put their lives in your hands . etc, etc, etc....Lots of real world considerations, backed up by both safety and sales data that make the Cirrus a better choice and better tool. Most Mooney owners (remember I was one of them many times) Speed is the biggest disparity. But it's less of an issue than many might think. for instance, if we assume a 400 mile trip with the SR22 doing 170kts and the Mooney Missile or Ovation doing 185kts. The difference in block time between a Mooney and Cirrus is only 11 minutes. Gas is about the same since the engines are both IO-550's that have the same FF at 75% power. That's in the margins. If you unload your bags quickly and have the FBO bring the car to the ramp that time is recouped.

No arguments and I said as much. Price and the cost of safety are always a factor in buying decisions. Also my boat, it will be floating for many years to come...and factory support and parts for the SR22 will be there. Unfortunately, no one flying a mooney can say that for certain now. Don't get me wrong, I love Mooneys and have owned several. I think they are a much more "beautiful" aircraft than cirrus. That being said, this sort of plane is a tool for traveling and I'm long since over any "emotional" connection to an inanimate object. All I care about is what can it do for me and will it be sustainable. Beauty aside, the Cirrus SR22 is a better tool with better safety and support.

Have you driven a "modern" 991 or 992 (911) Porsche? They have become big GT cars. The days of a small, light sports car are gone. The 997 model (2005-2012) was Porsche's last true "sports car" and every 911 produced after that is a glorified GT car. I've owned 14 different 911s and my last was a 2013 991. It was big, fat, and had lots of "modern" stuff that annoyed me more than anything...but its what consumers wanted. Porsche (and Cirrus) have evolved to meet consumer demand. Mooney didn't. Porsche (and Cirrus) are still in business...Mooney isn't.

All valid points... Insurance is about the same. 1.0%-1.5% of hull value depending on quals / TT and Time in type My last Annual was $4500. Nose pucks needed to be replaced but all else was good. So same basic charge for annual as a M20R Subscription costs depend on what system you use. If you have dual 430W, then costs are the same. If you have G1000, then costs are the same Chute repack required every 10 years. Cost is about 15K or 1500 per year. I look at this as cheap safety insurance. If a motor quits at night or over inhospitable terrain, I'll take the chute, thank you! Depreciation is an area where the Cirrus shines. Depreciation is very low on the SR22 because demand is very high. You can look at controller and compare the resale of a 2015 Cirrus and 2015 Mooney. About 100K difference in favor of the Cirrus Last question is subjective, but I'd say after flying with A/C and having and using TKS, newer is better! Lastly, budget always is a factor. And getting into a "good" Cirrus SR22 is a 200K and up proposition, so if a buyer only has 100K to spend they are out of luck or need to find a partner. No arguments, budget matters. But if we remove cost from the equation, the decision is a no-brainer.

I like all white...

I always look like a dork, regardless of where my wheels are hanging!

I'm living happily ever after and my (non pilot) wife is happy to take trips with me. Do I miss my Screaming Eagle IO550. Sometimes if I'm flying by myself. The rest of the time, having TKS, Air Conditioning and still being able to carry over 1200 pounds is hard to argue with. And this makes sense...Its simple business and product evolution. Mooney's and Bonanza's are like really nice cars from the 90's. At the time they were great, but no one would spend $600K+ today for the airplane version of a 1990 BMW 525i. Do I still love flying Mooney's...Heck yes. But in the same way as I love driving old Porsches or BMW's. They are great cars but time required evolution. Mooney's attempts at updates were too little, too late. In comparison... Cirrus keeps innovating and its key attributes, the parachute, gear down and welded, a big cabin, two doors etc..etc are there on all the planes. And the new ones are just getting better. If anyone wonders why Mooney is out of business, take a look at exhibit A below...My Cirrus.

Sorry but this is emotional hyperbole not backed up by NTSB safety statistics. Nor is it commensurate with proven business and sales results. https://gama.aero/facts-and-statistics/quarterly-shipments-and-billings/ Mooney is faster and more efficient than Cirrus SR22, but the Cirrus has outsold the Ovation and Acclaim and Ultra 30-40 to 1.

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/mooney-shut-down-employees-furloughed/ Sad, true, but not unsurprising. Back in 2014, I was working for Cirrus but had been a long time Mooney owner. That year at AirVenture in Oshkosh, I made a point to stop by the Mooney tent and found the CEO. I asked him, if there were any plans to put a parachute system in the Ovation / Acclaim and pursue a gross weight increase. He said they were working on other things (Trainer, two doors, carbon fiber shell etc) and didn't see the need to do all the testing and engineering required to install a BRS. I told him politely, but bluntly, that I thought he was making a mistake and that Cirrus with its SR22 & CAPs were going to put Mooney out of business in under 5 years. At the time Cirrus was out selling Mooney 30 to 1 annually. I explained to him that while speed & efficiency are important selling points, wives don't care about that, they care about safety. And convincing wives to "sign off" on the purchase of a plane was the only way to sell $600K+ SE piston airplanes. He was polite but unreceptive. He responded by saying that Mooney's speed and efficiency had always been its best selling points and was confident that when all the "improvements" they were working on and the trainer come to market, they'd be in good shape going forward and able to compete. I can only imagine how successful Mooney would have been with a 1200 lb useful load and a BRS. But we'll never know. As it turns out I wasn't too far off from my insolvency date estimate. No doubt, GA is a tough market place and the road to success is paved with the carcasses of literally hundreds of dreamers, ideas and companies that just never make it or can't sustain over the long haul. Innovation and evolution are important but giving the customers what they (really their wives) want is the most important factor to sustainability. Unfortunately Mooney has learned that again the hard way.

Sad but not unsurprising. Back in 2014, I was working for Cirrus but had been a long time Mooney owner. That year at AirVenture in Oshkosh, I made a point to stop by the Mooney tent and found the CEO. I asked him, if there were any plans to put a parachute system in the Ovation / Acclaim and pursue a gross weight increase. He said they were working on other things (Trainer, two doors, carbon fiber shell etc) and didn't see the need to do all the testing and engineering required to install a BRS. I told him politely, but bluntly, that I thought he was making a mistake and that Cirrus with its SR22 & CAPs were going to put Mooney out of business in under 5 years. At the time Cirrus was out selling Mooney 30 to 1 annually. I explained to him that while speed & efficiency are important selling points, wives don't care about that, they care about safety. And convincing wives to "sign off" on the purchase of a plane was the only way to sell $600K+ SE piston airplanes. He was polite but unreceptive. He responded by saying that Mooney's speed and efficiency had always been its best selling points and was confident that when all the "improvements" they were working on and the trainer come to market, they'd be in good shape going forward and able to compete. I can only imagine how successful Mooney would have been with a 1200 lb useful load and a BRS. But we'll never know. As it turns out I wasn't too far off from my insolvency date estimate. No doubt, GA is a tough market place and the road to success is paved with the carcasses of literally hundreds of dreamers, ideas and companies that just never make it or can't sustain over the long haul. Innovation and evolution are important but giving the customers what they (really their wives) want is the most important factor to sustainability. Unfortunately Mooney has learned that again the hard way.

I'm sure this has been covered somewhere before, but a quick search didn't turn up much. Question for the group. For later Ovations with G1000, what are the options for ADSB compliance? I know that was an issue a while ago but I've been away from the forum for a while. Trying to help a friend get into an Ovation and need the info to make informed decisions. Thanks