highflyer77

Imagine, you will have to use it what it´s originally made for... I would be interested what MSC takes responsibility to withdraw a carb heat system at a aircraft with carburator engine ...

Pleased to show my bird to you ;-)

Additional: I painted her this spring. When my panel upgrade (GFC 500, second GTN650xi etc.) will be finished, I will be close to or maybe even north of $ 170.000,--. But then it will be a bird you won´t be able to buy easily - either here or in the U.S. ...

I´m wondering that you all are only talking about money. My ´64 M20E with a lot of mod´s is a speedy bird. I see 150 KTAS in any circumstance in FL120. Cruising WOT in the 8.000 to 10.000 ft range, I am somewhere between 157 and 160 KTAS. I am quite sure, that in daily flying there´s no difference that you can feel, compared to a J´s performance. But now to where a M20E shines: I really like the J-bar gear, as it is very simple (and cheap!) to maintain, and operating it is a piece of cake. But what I consider as best improvement compared to a J: a M20E is way less heavy: I have much shorter T/O distances than a J, and also an improved climb performance. You in the U.S. seldom have runways below 3.000 ft. But, for exampe, I frequently fly into Zell am See (LOWZ) with my M20E - elevation is 2.470 ft., LDA 660 m, TODA is about 100 m longer. I see it as an absolute safety advantage, that a M20E climbs at 1.000 ft./min. at gross weight on a standard day. Here in the mountains things can go different on a hot and humid day... Even a M20K only does about 850 ft./min. real world climb performance due to it´s higher weight... The only reason/advantage for a J would be, if I frequently would need more leg room for my rear passengers. But as Mooneys are fast, the passengers don´t stay there a long time anyway ;-))) ! The bigger thing is, that here in Europe there are not a lot of well equipped M20E´s around. I bought mine 2 years ago well IFR equipped (GTN650, ASPEN, etc.) at about $ 95.000,--. Disadvantage: I have an antique Century II, 1-axis autopilot only. But it flies GPSS-tracks and LOC-approaches perfectly, and trimming my bird for a steady attitude is easy. Now I´m grading her up to my personal plane. At the end, it does not matter if you spent 10.000,-- more or less - the plane has to match your requirements - and this also includes yearly maintenance costs etc. ... Just my 2c ...

Joshua, it´s absolutely up to you how you do your personal risk assesments. If you consider veering off the runway at high speed due to a failing (main) landing gear with all subsequent possible movements/decellerations/ascellerations is a minor risk, feel free to continue in your personal process of risk assesmant. But keep in mind: our birds have no airbags, no sidebags, no crumple zones etc. like modern cars. Furthermore, keep in mind, there always could be hard obstacles in your way that end in bad collisions causing bad and serious, even deadly injuries. Still no problem to me, if you continue considering this as a small personal risk for you. But as soon as you decide to take anybody else aboard as your passenger (it might be your spouse, or your child, or both ... or "just" a good personal friend to whom you are doing a favour by giving him a personal ride in your plane to a distant city he needs to go), please do me one favour: please re-evaluate the initial situation for your risk assesment and consider it thoroughly ! Concerning the crack: there´s only one way to be sure: it needs further investigation; either by removing the paint and doing another thorough inspection by using dye-penetrant means again, or maybe by means of some magnet-inductive testing... I would not change the part against a used other one as long as I am not sure if there´s a crack or not. Just my 2 cents, I am not a A&P etc. ...

FlyingDude, have you got the arms for a 1964 M20E at hand (I assume the arms might be the same than for your plane, as there never were changings on this at the M20E) ? I just have the arms from a older w&b at the moment...

I had a thorough conversation & recheck of the new w&b with the maintenance shop doing it now. Weight seems to be correct (I had the plane weighed last year at "my" first own annual (all tanks propperly drained by my A&P and me), and compared to that weight, the aircraft got about 18 lbs. heavier. Seems to be realistic, as the new design has more layers of different colours, and 2x clear paint coating. They also used a water spirit, so the measured weights are correct. When I checked with my old w&b, it came out they used wrong arms (please correct me, but we measured the following: nose gear is -2cm, main gear is +167cm from STA 0). They used -3cm and +172cm for the calculation and got a empty CG position of 121,77 cm. I don´t know, where they got their measurements... When the recalculation was done with the the shorter arms (they where measured by my A&P as well as they were used a few years ago in an old w&b, so I am sure they are correct !), it turned out that empty CG position is 117,33 cm. Quite a shift, if you take into consideration, how small the changing in arms for calculation is ! But this makes the plane much more usable (otherwise, I would barely have been able to take baggage with me, and only small children on the rear seats) ! w&b sheet finally is issued new by the maintenance facility, and everything happy now ;-) ! As allways: thanks for all of your input´s !

I checked again, and as I have installed the Monroy STC, exactly the one access panel that obtains acces to the side of the spar, where I could reach the area of the hoist point, is sealed... any ideas from the real experienced Mooniacs, how I could get this problem solved ?

Absolutely my opinion. They also did the mistake not having the airframe in the position required when doing the weighing (spirit level on the row of rivets on the fuselage). They just put it on the scales on the workshop floor, I assume. This falsifies the weight reading in such a way, that the CG shifts rearward by 1,5 inches (IIRC, the wrong weighing procedure shifts about 30 kgs. from nose gear to the main gear...). When I bought the plane, the CG sheet showed an empty CG of 48.05 inches. I reweighed everything myself (unofficial) - weight was correct, but the CG moved forward to 46.7 inches. This gives you a lot of possible weight in the rear seats and baggage compartment, compared to 48.05 inches... As the plane was stripped and paint, the offer also included a new w&b (done by a different company than the paint shop). The paint shop did a perfect job. But it´s a PIA when you expect to get a new, correct w&b after repainting the aircraft (I even sent them the instructions for determining the correct values...) , and then it´s just useless... Theis just said: No, we don´t do the "empty plane method" - it´s too much work do drain the fuel. And I am quite sure that they have not nivelled the fuselage by means of using a spirit level. Grrrrrhmpfff... But what do you think - isn´t she a beauty ??? I´ll just do a new w&b sheet with my A&P/maintenance facility !

Dear Mooniacs, I just got my aircraft newly painted. As standard procedere the aircraft´s w&b was done new. Unfortunately, they choose to do the w&b with the "full fuel method"... :-((( . As I have installed the monroy l/r-fuel STC: where do I find the arm for the rear tanks ? Standard tanks are 122 cm (48 inch). I found something inofficial that reads 168 cm (66 inch) for the rearward tanks, but I don´t know where to get the "official" numbers to forward to the maintenance facility... Thanks for your help !

Dear Mooniacs, I just found this thread as I am dealing with the same fuel cap issues on one of my fuel cap´s (the lever is not closing down fully anymore, when I close it. It still works, but I certainly don´t want to see it popping off in flight, or have water in my tank due to a open fuel cap, because it popped open...). The fuel caps on my aircraft (M20E) are shaw 431-9. I am offered a used cap type 531-1. Will it fit and am I allowed to use it on my aircraft ? Thanks to all of you in advance !

Dear folks, I´d like to bring this up again, as also with my M20E I have ripped off tie down rings. So far, I have helped myself by using the main gear to tie down my plane. But it would be nice to be able to use the tie down rings again... According to the comments here it should be no problem to repair this with 5/16 helicoils, or to use the LASAR-tiedown/jack-combo. BUT: I have installed the Monroy-STC long range fuel tanks (86 gals. of fuel). Now I am frightened to open a panel, as I am not sure, if the specific one next to the tie down ring hole is part of the sealed outer fuel tanks... on the other hand, I do not want somebody to drill into the wing for installing a helicoil, as I am frightened that this also can cause leakage of my outer tanks... I would be happy to get qualified answers from the expert´s here, maybe even somebody has pictures that would help ... Thank´s to all in advance !

As I just wondered about payload of my '64 M20E, I don´t think, that it is a typo. 986 lbs. useful load would be close to the roughly 1.000 lbs. that had original M20E's without any modifications... On the other hand, 686 lbs. usefull load would be 120 lbs. below my merely 805 lbs. (mine has quite all speed mod´s including 201 windshield & cowling, A/P, etc. ; I really would be interested on a "average weight list" for speed mod's, avionics, carpets etc. ...

Everything was done properly (I was with the A&P all the time - fuel was drained completely, aircraft was levelled as ordered by the weighing instructions etc.) - therefore the CG moved foreward by more than an inch... I am just wondering what could be the "fat" on my M20E ... does anybody know the weight gain (either part for part or accumulated) for the speed mod´s ? I cannot imagine that from a roughly 1.000 lbs. payload only 800 will be left ;-) !

Hi folks, getting this up again: I bought my M20E, a nice '64 #341 last autumn. In general, I am quite happy at all (otherwise I would have bought a other plane ;-) ), but my useful load is somewhat limited. Before the aircraft was sold to me, a new w&b was done in France: 803kgs./1.770 lbs. empty weight, empty c.g. 48,03 in. I was quite sure that they did a mistake when doing this w&b, so I did a new one here in Austria a few days ago with an Austrian A&P. Outcome was 801,6 kgs./1.767 lbs., but empty c.g. shifted foreward to 46,77 in. Still I am wondering about the empty weight - we drained all tanks and thoroughly emptied the plane :-) ! My M20E has literally all speed mod´s available, GTN650, KX155, ASPEN 1000, Century IIB autopilot, Monroy L/R tanks. On the other side wheelen led landing light, lightweight starter, concorde battery. I am still missing about 100 lbs. of useful load ;-) !