Drew_Wagner

I just had the same problem. It was the relay (battery/master solenoid). If you have recently replaced it with the SkyTec, call them and they will send you another one. If you are engaging the switch and hearing the click but getting no power test voltage in front of and behind the solenoid. If you are getting no voltage behind the solenoid but heard the click it's more than likely the solenoid. On mine I could cycle the switch a few times and it would engage but there was about a 1V drop across the solenoid. Apparently it wasn't fully seating so some arcing and resistance was occurring inside the solenoid. Funny thing was that when it did engage the voltage was always different because each time you engage it lands a bit different. Not a mechanic or as experienced as Clarence! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When multiple issues are present simultaneously it sure makes troubleshooting a bear!

Quick update on what has happened since I originally posted: - Figured out that the batter/master solenoid I replaced with the Sky-Tech was defective after talking to skytec. Apparently it was a known issue which has since been fixed. They sent me a new one free of charge and I now have only a .1V drop across the solenoid. - I replaced the starter. Bad solenoid on the starter. I have a 149-NL core if anyone is interested. - I replaced the master switch. I took a 2.5hr flight this morning to South Florida and the wag did not occur on the flight. Fingers crossed this issue is now solved.

The Flightstream is 2 AMUs installed max. It is amazing and works as advertised. I installed it and the GTX345 and couldn't be happier. Fire up the 530, open foreflight and its all there. Make a change in the panel and boom it asks if you would like to load. Change the route in FF and you can beam it to the 530, victor airways and all. It has completely changed my flying experience. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm thinking about coming for a day. I've been there for the RC event in the past and the runway is immaculate and manicured. It's an amazing facility. You planning on staying the whole time or just coming for a day? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Also the new starter is a night and day difference over the old one. It is so much easier to start now. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good suggestions guys. Plan on continuing to diagnose over the weekend. Battery is confirmed good so that is one item off of the list. Also the alternator is charging and keeping the battery charged. Took a 1.5 hr flight this morning 12.7V before the flight and landed at 12.8V after. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

how do you guys locate the continuing ed and mooney recurrent training places? MAPA is a great resource and produces an excellent magazine. http://www.mooneypilots.com/calendar.htm The Mooney summit is a non profit that helps downed pilots and focuses on education. http://www.mooneysummit.com Mooney Flyer. They list upcoming events in the publication. The Mooney Flyer is definitely worth subscribing to and reading. http://www.themooneyflyer.com A list of events: http://www.mooneyevents.com Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Frustrating thing is that it doesn't happen at all on the ground and intermittently in the air. Battery starts the engine strong and is kept steady at 12.8-12.9v. Most of the flight the voltage is steady at 14v on the JPI and then jumps as in the video to 14.1-14.3. Plan of action right now is to replace the master per the Don Maxwell article since I attempted cleaning the contacts with no luck. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://vimeo.com/180363010 Here is a quick video of the issue in action from my flight this morning. Full throttle had just leveled off from the climb. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree that it depends largely on your mission and location. I'm in the southeast and most of my flying is within 2-3 hours and my schedule is fairly flexible. I have had very few VFR limitations since I have had the plane. I only delayed beginning my IR by about 4 months while I was looking for the right bird. I am looking forward to continued eduction by attending Mooney events and recurrent training. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To clarify, I start the airplane with only the master on, avionics master off. But your master does start the gyros rotating and warning lights such as the low vac which illuminates when they are slow before start up. That light alone going off told me the power was lost. New starter is in and it starts like never before, so pretty sure I have one issue fixed. Now onto the fluctuating ammeter...seems to only happen at higher power settings. I flew home 1/2 way at WOT 2500 like I usually fly and when I dropped it to 23 x 23 it seemed to happen less often. My intuition says that tells me the issue is made worse by more vibration and is probably in front of the firewall? Or should I go the replace master route first? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I do have a separate avionics master. When it lost power I could audibly hear the power shut down and the gyros start slowing down just like when you cut the master. Also my JPI is set up on a separate switch downstream from the master and off of my avionics master and it shut down as well. I am at the shop now and will have them test the battery. Couldn't hurt! Thanks for the suggestion.

I am a fairly new M20J owner, 150hr pilot, and I would highly recommend doing your instrument training in the airplane you plan to fly. I have put about 40 hours on 201XX since I purchased in mid May and done around 20 hours of instrument training in it. Definitely budget around $10K+/- additional for desired upgrades and squawks (I did an annual, installed a GTX 345/Flightstream 210 when I purchased for around $10AMUs), its just part of owning an airplane. I got my PPL around 2 years ago and intentionally waited until I bought my Mooney to begin instrument training specifically for the reasons you mentioned of consistency and having a comfort level with what I planned on flying long term. So much of instrument training is knowing power settings and how the plane will react with different control inputs and flying a Mooney vs 172 is night and day (low wing vs high wing, power/speed management since the plane is so slippery, retractable gear, prop control, importance of engine management). I found a great fellow Mooney CFII owner & instructor here in Charleston, SC who has been a pleasure to work with. If you are serious about flying and will put as many hours as you are describing (goal of 250 additional hours and perhaps a purchase in the next 12-24 months), you will be dropping close to $40,000 flying someone else's plane @ $160/hr for a 172 and more for a 182 (not including instructor). I think there is a tremendous amount of value in learning in what you will fly in and economically you will end up about the same or better if you find a well maintained plane and pull the trigger now. Plus to me there is nothing more satisfying than opening up that hangar and knowing that airplane is all mine and not having to worry if the plane is available or if I will have to pay minimums for a multi-day trip. I would love to move up to a bigger and faster Mooney one day, and I know that my experience in my J will make that transition much more fluid since all M20 Mooneys are based on essentially the same airframe with slightly different lengths. No better time to buy than now. Just my 2 Cents!

Yes, battery was on a minder all night and is at 12.9V. Pretty confident it is something down stream.

Hm, my cigarette lighter doesn't energize until the master is engaged. Could that be a potential issue? Quick update this morning: Starter arrived at the shop so I went to fly it back this morning to be installed. Turned on master, power came on and then I went to engage the starter and all electrical power turned off. I turned the key to off, cycled the master and power returned, tried starting and lost all power again. Third time was the charm and it cranked right up. Anyone ever had this happen? I am hoping that since we are replacing the starter that will fix it? Also, where can I order a new master switch online or do I have to go through Mooney. I still am having the wagging ammeter issue and it seems that replacing the master is my next step since I have already cleaned the contacts with no joy.

Yes it is definitely the 12V solenoid unless it is labeled incorrectly. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just got back from the shop and thankfully the starter issue that I have been chasing for a while showed its head while I was there so we ran through the SkyTec troubleshooting guide and had 11V at the starter when engaged so looks like its time for a new starter. Going to send the old one in for a new solenoid on the starter. After two hours being there it started right up once it cooled down just like before. Should be in on Friday and will take it back to swap them out. Quick question for any of you Mooney M20J guys, on my battery/master solenoid that was replaced there were two small terminals and two large terminals. One of the small terminals goes to the Master and engages the solenoid, which was put onto the single small terminal. The other one has a fuse in it and was connected to the "hot" side of the solenoid with the other connection. When I disconnected this via the fuse, the voltage drop went from .5 to .1. Any idea what it is? We couldn't figure it out. I searched the electrical schema and it appears to be the analog clock as best I can tell? Could the clock have that type of voltage drop? Either way I left it disconnected and will figure it out another day. Nothing other than the clock appeared to be not functioning. We did the Don Maxwell fix for cleaning the contacts and they appeared to be clean but sure enough on the way back there was no wobbly ammeter and it showed positive charge for the first time in a while. Its amazing how such a small amount of corrosion can cause an issue like that. Still not 100% confident that everything is fixed, but good progress was made. Its fun learning about the workings of this airplane!

Thanks for the info. Taking it to a MSC in the morning here in SC. Anybody with feedback on Precision Air? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Clarence, had a recent oil change is that normal to have that much oil or is that cause for concern? My last oil report was great with no metal. I cleaned the oil with shop towels before closing. I just like to know what to expect before walking blind into a shop! Would you recommend replacing all of these wires? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My 78' M20J has had a couple of odd electrical happenings the past couple of flights and want to see if there are any experts or fellow owners who have had the same issues and found the culprit or if these could potentially be all from a similar issue? Issues: - Wobbling Ammeter (going to first try Don Maxwells suggestion of cleaning Master Switch and connections here), but I have noticed that over the last two flights the high/low warning light has come on and instead of a slight wobble it is doing about a 1/4 deflection in the wobble that is pretty big. Unfortunately I just found the article so I need to go fly and see if putting pressure on the contacts stops the issue. In flight intermittently the voltage will go to 14.3V when wobbling and then return to a normal 13.9V-14V reading. - I replaced the Battery/Master solenoid (with sign off from A&P) because it was original to the airplane and was in bad shape with the SkyTec PMA'd one, but when I turn the master on it always clicks the solenoid, but does not always immediately power everything up. I usually have to cycle it a couple of times to get it to actually provide power. Once it works it works though and has never shut off after engaging. I put a volt meter on it and the battery has around 12.9V on the front of the Solenoid but only 12.3V once the master is turned on on the back side of the solenoid. Is this a normal drop? On my JPI 830, it is around 11.9V in the cabin. I have not removed the JPI to get a reading at the terminal, that is just the reading on the screen. Plane starts fine and seems to have enough power. Is this kind of drop pretty normal under load and I am being overly paranoid or does that sound like something is amiss? - I pulled the top and bottom cowl to inspect my alternator and starter wiring and I have concerns about wire integrity and potential corrosion. As you can see from the photos I attached, there is a seemingly pointless splice in the line going to the starter (image 0598) and the alternator wiring has lost a majority of its shielding and is fraying badly. Is it time to replace one or both of these or is this "normal"?

@cnoe The real plane has a 3, but I wouldn't mind having that pretty 5 blade on a TBM 930 . Here's the real thing

My sister surprised me this week with an awesome painting of my bird over Charleston. She usually paints flowers, but made an exception for the Mooney.

I am definitely a newbie at this, but I would imagine that it must be a heat related issue. My biggest frustration is that it is really tough to replicate preventing me from being able to run the full skytec diagnoistic and I don't particularly want to install a new starter if it is something as simple as the firewall solenoid or bad ground/connection somewhere in the circuit. Going to try to replicate after the 4th at my home airport with mechanic on standby to see if I can get it to do it again and run through the skytec troubleshooting procedure. Will report back when we find the issue. Really appreciate the help and advice from everyone. BTW, I have the SkyTec 149-NL.

Clarence thank you for the troubleshooting guide link, very helpful.