Jpflysdfw

As usual, you guys are a wealth of information. (Wiki-Mooniac’s) Seeing these all in one place is hugely helpful for comparing so, thanks to all for contributing pic’s and facts. I have to admit, given the pics above, I do like the looks of the Sabre. @Bob_Belville that cowl with dual lights and that paint scheme just look awesome!

Alright, I’m going to play my Mooney newbie card again.... As I’m trying to learn “all things Mooney” the cowl mod options have me a bit perplexed or maybe just overwhelmed. I see references to Laser 201 cowl, Laser cowl enclosures, LoPresti Super, ARI, and Sabre Cowl. I am assuming the Laser 201 is essentially a replica of the J cowl (based off Roy LoPresti aero improvements) and am somewhat familiar with LoPresti Super as they also make cowls for Tigers. LoPresti, from memory, were quite expensive though touted extremely high performance improvement numbers. From Laser pics, I get the general idea of what the “enclosure” but don’t have a sense of how or if it’s effective and if so whether it’s worth the upgrade and.... I have limited knowledge on the others. With so many different options, I’m curious if there is an technical based “best answer” or if this is one of those personal preference topics. I would be curious if real data/info exists on benefits of one Vs the other in terms of: cost, speed and cooling performance, improved cowl removal time (for maintenance) and if not what experiences any of you have had on whatever cowl upgrade choice you made.

@Bob_Belville Bob, thanks. I had seen that video on YouTube sometime back and even rewatching it where she called out xponder off and gear down, the gear lowering was imperceptible (at least to me). Years of practice, I’m sure, but still very reassuring. @gsxrpilot Thanks Paul, ideally Im with you in option 1. While with a run out, I could ensure it got it rebuilt and broke in the way I wanted, it also means down time. Everything is a trade off. I went to see an E here locally a couple of weeks, with only a couple hundred hours SMOH. The problem was between the 2006 annual and June 2018, it had 78hrs on the engine and some years with no hours. While it’s always hangered, I wasn’t willing to roll the dice on something with that little use. To your point, higher hours, consistent use and purposeful maintenance offer a much lower risk profile.

Bob, thanks for the testimony, comforting to know. @chrixxer, two fingers.... wow, much less force than I would have ever imagined!! It’s not intuitive that it would swing that easy. Yours and Bob’s input allay some unfounded concerns. Jeff

@McMooney Interesting. Per FF, yours is few miles longer than my direct route KDTO KMQJ. That is notwithstanding whatever ATC might or might not do routing wise on an IFR flight. Was yours on VFR flights(IE GPS direct) or IFR with reserves?

@kellym Thanks and I know your logic is absolutely sound. For most of what I’ll do, 52gal would be perfectly fine. One of my “missions” is a North Dallas (Denton) to North side of Indianapolis (about 700nm). In a perfect world, I’d like the option to go straight through (presuming my bladder cooperates). While it’s not a deal breaker, it is an objective, though one I may have to yield on. Curious, I’ve heard pros/cons on manual Vs electric gear. You seem to be decidedly manual, can you share your thoughts? Jeff

Thanks to all for the feedback. In general, all inputs appear highly consistent. Overall, I’d say I’m still slightly biased towards the F, if nothing else for the fuel margin. However, not biased so much that if a really nice E came along I’d pass on it. In the end, the sound advice from several was that both are great airplanes and if I can find one that’s been well maintained and with modern avionics, I likely can’t go wrong. Now, if I can just find one that fits that description..life will be good!! Jeff

@chrixxer Thanks for the clarification. I recently posted a question asking about the differences, pros/cons etc between an E and an F. I received some fantastic feedback from several knowledgeable folks willing to share heir thoughts. Given that you have owned and flown both, I’m curious about your perspective. Other than 12 gals and 10”, in your mind is there any significant benefits from one over the other? (Flying/handling characteristics, in flight stability, etc) Of the two, which is your favorite and why? Jeff

Ahh, did not know that, makes sense and helpful to know. Thanks Don.

@chrixxer Thanks. I’m confused about the shoulder width reference. Are you saying that the E was/is wider than an F? If so, how does Spatual Interiors help with that? (Sorry for a newbie question)

I can’t tell from the pooch pic...is it removed or just folded down? I’m in the Mooney search and want to be able to do the same, so looking for similar. Also, is they standard or an option? I will potentially Need to be able to transport a crate. Curious how much of a pita it is??

Some of us refer to that as vertical challenged! The E is sounding better and better....

Thanks @Stephen. Very generous offer, not sure at this point. I was about to go fly earlier this AM and during preflight found the image attached. Air induction into filter. So much for ram air! Not sure how long I flew that way yesterday. Flying with that way unknowingly Vs knowingly are two different things. Not a huge deal, but... Intended to replace it at annual in May and couldn’t source a replacement. Time search harder. That is one of the great things about this plane...takes 5 secs to open her up and preflight the engine compartment. Repair will be complicated by me getting ready to go out of town for several days starting tomorrow.

That’s awesome, you likely saved me an hour of searching. Btw, I recall seeing ur window tinting and homemade artic air instructions a while back. I haven’t tried them yet but they were very informative..nice job!! Jeff

Eric, thanks for the note. I absolutely can relate to your reference of finding something that speaks to me. There are many great airplanes out there, the trick for me seems to be finding “the one” among the many. So, I won’t rule out anything too quickly. Jeff

Paul, great and thanks for the offer. So long as it’s not an inconvenience, I will absolutely take you up on your offer and would love to pick your brain. I recall you flew a nice C with a 530 before ur K. @Hank indicated there was a seat mod previously posted. I did a cursory search for it last night but didn’t come up with anything. I’ll keep looking because that is definitely something I’d like to have. Thanks again for the offer and hopefully we can connect in latter August. BTW, am definitely NOT looking for “a project”/ fixer upper. Jeff

Thanks @Marauder, I’m in the Dallas Tx area and am fortunate in that I’ve been blessed with a great career (now winding down). I’ve generally been pretty frugal over my income producing years, which gives me options now. Saving for a better airplane is thankfully not a factor. I have aging parents in the Midwest that I antipicate flying to see a few times a year. That will be my principal long mission mixed in with some recreational flying. I have thoughts of doing an annual OshKosh trip and a few other adventures but seldom over mountainous terrain or into high altitude airports. I suppose in reality I don’t need another airplane but.... I want one that will be a better traveler than my Tiger (which does have a C1 AP, marginally acceptable). And, I don’t want to spend almost as much in avionics as my Tiger is worth to get it upgraded (new GPS coupled to AP, JPI, ADSB, Aspen or G5 etc, there’s that frugal thing again). That is the single biggest driver for the search for a new plane. I’ve already bought one airplane that didn’t address the many of my wants, so I think they are pretty well crystallized. Truthfully, a solid/upgraded C would probably satisfy most of my “wants”, except eliminating any potential for carb ice and being able to dial in LOP during cruise. How important are those.....well that’s debatable and as always....in the eye of the beholder. I originally considered E thru K, decided that while high altitude would be cool, the added time to altitude, time back down, having to muck around with O2 and shorter TBO was probably not worth the benefit for the majority of my flying. If I found a decent one, at a reasonable price, I wouldn’t rule it out since nobody forces you to fly high altitude. The J is probably ideal and even more than I need (more efficient windshield, cowl, like the yokes better and improved location on tank selector, no shotgun panel). My thought is the F probably provides 90%+ of the J benefit at a nice $ discount(frugality...see a theme?) finding a 201 windshield/cowl a good AP and GPS would be ideal. The input received thus far leads the E to now be more intriguing than I had previously considered. At 5’8”, I think someone could survive back there in pinch and backseat passengers will likely be few (thanks to @Bob_Belville for the pic of smiling backseat passengers). I have not flown in a short-body nor a J so am anxious to compare those . However, irrespective of model, I really do want to find a path to fold down back seats. Love that about the Tiger: golf clubs, dog crate, lots of flexibility etc. Yeah, I know...I’m all over the map!! Thanks for your patience and inputs. Jeff

Lol, That’s precisely what I’m afraid of..... I seem to be easily convinced that moving up is a good thing!! Jeff

Thanks Paul. Just got back from a quick jump up to Oklahoma and when I got met a guy here local with a J that just landed. After chatting for thirty mins, I’ll be danged if he doesn’t almost have me ready to start looking for a J’s. Clearly, I’m very easily swayed! Super nice guy and he has the 100gal tanks, which is just an insane amount of fuel. I can tell this is not going to be a slam dunk decision. Jeff

As U have described your mission the E is the faster plane and less money. E wins. Admittedly, it’s starting to feel that way.

Thanks. Corrosion and fuel tank leaks are the two most incidious things I worry about followed by the emotional concern of buying an E (or F) and later wishing I’d have bought the other ( or even a J)! Regarding tank sealing, while I hope I never have to go through one, the probability is I will and it’s very encouraging that predictable and reliable results shouldn’t be something I need tone concerned over. As a side note, thus far, I’ve found MS to be extraordinarily welcoming along with providing a selfless free flow of knowledge sharing. At some point, maybe I’ll actually be an information provider Vs consumer! Thanks to you and everyone else that has been so generous in helping this Mooney newbie. I will undoubtedly continue to have many questions as I move forward towards Mooney ownership. cheers, Jeff

Thanks Bob. Presuming a reseal were required anyway, that certainly opens up a nice range improvement option and adds appeal to an E. If I could find one close to as nice as yours....I’d be all set!! Jeff

@Bob_Belville Thanks for the info on the bladders. I checked with Griggs today to get an idea on price. They are quite proud of those little buggers! @Hank Encouraging input on the carb ice. Also, glad to know there’s a rear seat mod option, very helpful. Now I just have to find the STC info and/or specifics on the associated mod. @Shiny moose good call on the wing span, I hadn’t assessed that previously. I compared the two and there is a 3 1/2’ difference so I should be fine. @wcb agree, the 201 cowl and windshield are absolutely upgrades I would prefer. For aesthetics as much as speed/cooling. BTW, I’m north of DFW and hanger in Denton Tx. I welcome any and all opportunity to pick any current/local Mooney owners brain in person or find an opportunity for a show ‘n tell. @Yetti Thanks, Split rear seats...my list of wants seems to be getting longer. Regarding controls, I actually think the heavier feel is a positive thing (less twitchy) for IMC. Thanks again, to all for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I hope everyone has a safe and Happy 4th of July, Cheers, Jeff