druidjaidan

Would love to see what you read. It depends on your altitude. If you're cruising at below 4 or 5k or so and WOT you're in for a bad time running the engine well above 75% power burning a ton of fuel for no real gain and putting extra stress on your engine. On the other hand in a normally aspirated Mooney up above 6 or 7 thousand you'll WOT (and ram air open) will start dropping below 75% rated so it should be obvious that you can (and should) run WOT.

Geez that's scary. We almost bought that plane back back in August, however we walked because there were, too many issues during the pre buy. Sad to see it end up like that. I hope the new owner had appropriate training.

So I can give an update on what was up. When we dug closer into the logs we found out the vibrator had been recently replaced (<1yr ago). So we were shocked it would fail again. The mechanic pulled it anyway, and lo and behold it was FULL of water. Electronics + water = bad. So how did this get missed in the prebuy? Well the plane has spent most of it's life, including the past few years, in a hangar. In that time the windshield seal had failed in one spot. That spot was right above the point that the vibrator is mounted. When it went for inspection with LASAR the vibrator worked fine so Paul didn't note it. However, right after the inspection the broker picked up the plane and it sat on a ramp (uncovered...), for a month while the broker dealt with title issues. About 6 days before we closed a major storm came through and thoroughly drenched the plane and destroyed the vibrator. We inspected the plane and found no other signs of water except draining straight into the vibrator. So we overhauled the vibrator, replaced the plugs, and resealed the windshield. It's unfortunate because it took up most of our after purchase reserve we had set aside for any initial squawks. I would have liked to have had a few other less critical, but kinda annoying squawks taken care of that we are now going to wait on a few months. The custom annunciator light panel doesn't dim at night, the 430 doesn't autodim for some reason, the landing light and nav light breaker/switches are worn out, the heater can't be fully turned off, and gear horn doesn't come on until idle, and the stall horn doesn't come on in flight. It's quite a list =)

I've got the opposite problem with my F. Tested on the ground all good. Then up with my CFI for transition training. Start setting up slow flight, slower, slower, slower hitting about 65 MPH and it's getting really mushy, but no horn. Pull it back a little more getting to the bottom of the white arc, no horn but I'm feeling buffeting in the ailerons. I tell my CFI what I'm feeling and he's kinda like "yeah right, we're pretty light we just aren't there yet let me try". He takes over and pulls it through the bottom on the white arc and a bit under that we stall. No horn =(

I went through NAFCO who brokered the loan through Pilot Bank. I'm very happy with them, everything from their side was well handled, prompt, clear, and helpful. The only SNAFU at all we had was they sent me one copy of a document they wanted two copies of back (one for myself and one for my wife). They where "very strict" on paperwork as the broker would have put it. There were some very minor clerical title issues with the plane and they held firm to the broker trying to get them to agree to finance it as it was. It was actually a good thing from my perspective because now I have a plane with a pristine clear title instead of having to fight the broker about hard to fix ancient title issues from the 70's.

Just had this done to 91M when a crack was found during the pre buy. Cost was only $160 for parts and 9 hours.

We personally got very little use out of them . There are no notes in the logs regarding the replacement of the spark plugs, so I assume they were original with the engine when it was last overhauled (~380 hours). That said they are part of the "bad batch" of Champion plugs known for failing resistors. My partner went out and tested them, some were as high as 80kohm. We're planning to just replace them with Tempest massives and if we see fouling issues we'll upgrade to fine wires on the bottom. If I had realized just how simple the vibrator was I would have just tested it out myself before sending out to be tested/overhauled if necessary. It's just an LC circuit.

We had a shop take a look at the starting issues. They are thinking the starter vibrator is the issue and are prepping to send it out for overhaul. Which all sounds fine to me. However I got to take a look at the logs closer last night and I noticed that the previous owner had replaced it July 2014! The mechanic also pulled the spark plugs, all fine waire champions all with excessively high resistance (20k ohm range). He's recommending replacing them. Trying to determine the best course of action. It seems like replacing the plugs no matter what is the right call. But should we do that before we send the vibrator in for overhaul or might that be the entire issue? Could the high resistance spark plugs be causing the vibrator issue, and/or have damaged the vibrator?

I'm personally kinda leaning toward the shower of sparks system. I read this after I posted and it describes exactly what we were seeing. Guess we'll get it into the shop to get it fixed. http://www.donmaxwell.com/publications/MAPA_TEXT/Shower%20of%20Sparks/Shower%20of%20Sparks.htm

After much delay my partner and I finally closed on N9391M last week. We picker her up from Placerville and flew her back to her knew home at KPAE. As seems to be par for the course, despite a thorough pre buy at LASAR the return trip resulted in a laundry list of squawks =(, mostly lesser used avionics and features that we will work on soon. But also some that we may have to deal with very soon. Both the landing light and the nav lights popped the breaker/switch on the return flight. It was weird because the nav lights would stay on for 5-30min and the landing light on for maybe 5 minutes. Didn't seem like they were shorting since that would go quick. Trying to save a buck so any ideas for diagnosing it before we pay a shop to diagnose it would be appreciated. One of the things that's been nagging at me though is the start process. No matter the process we did it seemed like the engine would not catch until the moment we released the starter. The starter turns the prop strongly and we hear buzzing from the vibrator when we push the starter in. Is there anything we should try, or chock it up to fuel injected planes are weird. Both my partner and I have flown extensively in fuel injected planes, and have never seen anything like that.

My partner and I are currently in the process of closing on a plane...if the seller can get the title cleared up. I'm happy to talk a bit about it, maybe grab a beer or coffee and chat, but honestly we likely won't be looking to add a partner immediately. We may be willing to consider a third partner for the right person, but it's not a hugely pressing need.

And the saga continues. So it's been a few weeks. After we negotiated a discount based on the prebuy results, we told LASAR to proceed with a few repairs that were needed: A rigging, preload adjust, SB 217, and a few other things. ABout two days after we told LASAR to proceed, we get an email from NAFCO: the title has issues. Small clerical stuff; a bill of sale from 1977 where someone left "Ltd." off a company name, 2 lien releases from the 80's that were signed off by an secretary instead of an officer of the bank. Fantastic. Weeks of back and forth with the broker's assistant while he tries to tack the lein's back through bank consolidations and find someone left alive from the bill of sale issue. The bank issue is relatively straight forward and he tracks down the bank and they are sending out the paperwork. However this past Monday night: "Nobody is alive from the company that bought the plane in '77 we won't be able to clear the title, but here's a guy who will do the loan anyway". Tuesday morning I send a rather scathing email about the Seller's only job in this whole thing was to provide clear title and how one of the Broker's first emails to me he said "We guarantee clear title to the buyer before, during, and after the sale". About an hour later somehow the paperwork for the bill of sale issue miraculously gets solved because someone tracked down the last remaining alive individual who is able to sign an amendment to the bill of sale and send it along. Here's the hitch: My loan docs expire this Friday. Tomorrow now. None of the paperwork fixes have shown up at Aerospace Reports as of today. Then I ask him to email me copies of the fixed paperwork just for my records. I take a look. The bill of sale amendment looks perfect. But what's this? The lien doc? Why is there only 1 lien document fix? That guy failed to pay attention to the title report that indicated 2 liens with the same bank had been improperly released and get both of them taken care of. Yeah...so now I get to redo my loan docs, cancel Southwest, unbook my time off, etc. All because of the sloppiness of this broker.

The one piece belly was already priced into our negotiations since I was aware of that up front, I had already added value to my initial offer based on comping it with the smooth belly. The one piece belly simply means the gear up should have been disclosed up front and justified with a high quality repair. It wasn't, so it wasn't priced into my offer. It doesn't scare me away from the plane one bit. However, it's completely unrealistic to say that a 2 identical planes with smooth belly mods, one that has a gear up and one that doesn't would be identical value. The one with the gear up is worth less, apples to apples. It means I now need to disclose it if/when I go to resell it. I can't in good faith put "no damage history" in my ad. That means the plane has lost some amount of value. Maybe when I go to sell it that lost value will be small enough to be lost in the noise, but maybe not. How much that value is certainly is up for negotiation. In our case it ended up being worth about 4% of the price. I can't say what would have happened if it had been disclosed up front, but honestly hiding it seems like a bad call to me if as you say all the sources say that an older gear up has little to no impact on the value. Especially since the repair seems to be good quality.

I got pmed for an update so I figured I'd give an update. We managed to negotiate a contract though there was much nashing of teeth, and accusations that I didn't trust him (duh, he doesn't work for me). We got most of what I wanted, still a seller biased contract imo, but it was acceptable enough. Went for a prebuy at LASAR. They found a handful of squawks, most quite minor, a few severe but easy to fix (gear preload is low, some rigging issues, and one of the pilot seat rail was not mounted on one side). The most annoying thing is that the "no damage history" that just happened to have the smooth belly mod obviously had a gear up despite him claiming otherwise. Wonder why he didn't scan that engine tear down for me, I think that would qualify as an "interesting" log entry. The gear up wasn't surprising and it happened in 94 and the engine got overhauled in 06 and a new prop in 07. So I'm currently thinking it isn't a deal breaker. The prebuy has a few things that need to be done and we need to negotiate who gets to pay for them, and I have to decide if the plane is worth what we offered after we factor in the gear up.

Not here unfortunately. I'm going to get murdered by washington state use tax no matter what (10% and change)

Yeah that's basically exactly what I've been trying to get in the language, that and removal of the seller's cancellation rights. He's very much refused. Yeah I've actually been keeping a close eye on Jimmy's inventory. He hasn't had an F up in a couple months now. The market for good ones seems really limited, but we're patient if this doesn't pan out.

Really? Cancellations are normal? I've done a lot of transactions for businesses, I've been present for negotiations, and I've bought a house. Admittedly not an airplane, but all of those contracts shared a lot of similarities. They all included a period of time where the seller was committed to the sale and the buyer could do their due diligence and none of them provided for a penalty free walk away for the seller (excluding some things like "the asset was destroyed or seized"). I'm sure you're probably right. He took some template 20 years ago, adapted it to be very generous and he's probably never done anything to overly sleazy with it and nobody seems to be able to read contracts and all of his business is in the under $150k range so even less people are paying attention.

I understand what the seller's concerns might be. And I'm willing to work with them on language that ensures we both get what we want, but this thing was comically unbalanced. As I said "Seller reserves the right to terminate this Sales Contract at any time." I mean really now. With that term in place this contract is as good as toilet paper, and there is no reason for me to sign it at all since it provides me nothing.

I've already started trying to track down the seller to contact directly. Unfortunately he moved recently I think so I'm not so sure I'll be able to.

Trying to buy an M20F. One comes on the market through a broker. I talk to him and we go back and forth a bit. He refuses to make scans of the entire logbooks because "I sold 10 planes last month if I scanned all the logs that's all I would ever do". Ok...frustrating, but I get him to scan the most important pieces and figure we'll sort it out during inspection. He ends up sending me fairly adequate details. Last three annuals, the engine overhaul, and a lot of other useful items as well as answers all of my detailed questions. Ok so we make an offer. I specify LASAR for the inspection. He tells me a story about LASAR ruining a sale for him because they came up with 13k in squawks and suggests TopGun instead. At this point I'm ok with either since they are both very reputable, but think it's strange he would try to tell a buyer to not user LASAR because they are too thorough...I understand him trying to dissuade me, but that isn't exactly a convincing argument. Ok so we negotiate the price a little and settle on something ok for both of us. I send him my purchase agreement (basically the AOPA example one). He comes back oh no, we have to use my contract I've been using for 20 years. Oh and you can save the escrow fees because I'll do it with my trust account. He sends me the contract this morning (actually he messed up and sent it to my wife and my partner and not me, but w/e). Before I even see the contract my wife replies "We will not be signing this contract, and I suggest we walk away now if this is how he does business". Turns out the contract (to paraphase) basically says that the seller has the right to bend me over, come over and sleep with my wife, and then keep my deposit. Not cool. Here's some tidbits: - "Purchaser agrees that a pre-purchase inspection is to inform Purchaser as to the condition and airworthiness of such aircraft. Purchaser agrees problems of mechanical, or cosmetic, can not be used to renegotiate purchase price of such aircraft. In addition, it is agreed that Seller may retain all deposits paid in connection with the purchase price and any trade-in aircraft as liquidated damages by reason of Purchaser's failure to pay for a pre-purchase inspection up to the cost of the pre-purchase inspection and/or any additional costs associated with nonpayment of pre-purchase inspection." - "Seller shall not be liable to Purchaser in any way for failure or delay in making delivery on delivery date." Combined with a section that basically says if I can't close within 10 days then I surrender my deposit. And my favorite: - "Seller reserves the right to terminate this Sales Contract at any time." So, the seller refuses to negotiate when the inspection comes back that he's not properly maintained the plane in years, he can drag his feet as much as he likes, but if I don't close as soon as he says then he takes the deposit and walks away, oh and if he gets a higher offer while I'm doing the PPI he can cancel the contract. Oh and the broker "guarantees" clear title so therefore we don't need a warranty of clear title from the seller. Never mind what that guarantee is...

Not much experience with either, but there is an MSC in Bellingham, WA (Command Aviation) and another in Troutdale, OR. The IA was very helpful in looking at pictures of planes we were considering. Helped us avoid paying for a full pre buy on one crappily maintained M20G with a lot of questionable stuff simply from reviewing the photos. If you look through my post history you can probably find the images. Of note...the previous two annuals on that plane had been at the MSC in Troutdale so I'm not sure what to make of that. That said, they were playing catch up with a very neglected plane.

Hijacking a thread? What did you expect? You linked to a site that's trying it's best to exploit SEO keywords for search placement while pretending to be "official" source while hiding that it's just some business trying to make a buck on people that need loans and don't know any better. They are writing loans for a higher APR than my credit card while purporting to want to "help GA". And you're talking about "purse strings have been loosened and the money is flowing" like they are doing people a favor by loaning them money at 7.5%.

If this was a diamond in the rough someone local would have pick it up by now. Maybe it was properly maintained by the previous owner. Something tells me he didn't pickle it when he stopped flying it though. All I saw when I looked at this plane myself was $$$. How much would they have to come down to in order to make this reasonable. I haven't seen enough RayJay's to get a feel for what they go for, but I can't imagine that they go for enough to make this a deal. The restoration on this plane alone could easily top 50k and that's without an P&I. Treat the engine like it's timed out: 30k New panel 12-25k depending on what you want Probably a 10-12k annual to pick up all the small stuff There is a guy that bought Cherokee 140 in similar condition for $1000 from the previous owner that had lost his medical and let the plane rot for years. That's about what I would personally pay to take on a project like this. Maybe there is someone out there looking for a project to work on, this is a plane for them assuming the airframe isn't corroded beyond repair and the broker realizes his 55k price is insane. Do you actually want to fly? This isn't a plane for someone that wants to fly unless they have very deep pockets.

It's pretty easy to figure out. 43 SMOH...10 years ago. That engine is likely trash. Low end VFR only GPS NAV/COM with no secondary COM or NAV. Visible rust in the photos. New prop and engine overhauled at the same time. Gear up or prop strike? Out of annual, pitot static out (not that it really matters this is a VFR only plane), ELT dead. This guy has been sitting on the ramp rotting for 9 or so years and they still are asking near top end F model pricing. They are out of their minds. It's probably corroded, the engine is likely garbage and the panel is a joke.