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IMO, the Debonair would be the perfect choice but they are all old. Old Bonanzas can end up being very expensive. I agree with others that having your own plane is always best. When it comes to upgrades and even maintenance, you don't want disagreements. If you like the Lycoming IO360 you might consider a Beech Sierra from 1981-1983. It is slightly wider across the front seats than a Bonanza. It has three doors. The wing load is 20% higher than a 201 and as a result handles turbulence a bit better. The useful load of my '83 Sierra was 155 lbs higher than my '89 J. Cruising speed is an honest 136 kts. which is slower, but LOP runs just like a J. A frequent 338 nm trip in my Sierra averaged 2.5 hrs. while in the J just 2 hrs 8 min. There were fewer than 800 Sierras built and only 12 were built in 1983, so it's only a consideration. I had one with the six-seat option and we did well with my wife and I in the front two teenagers in the middle and my younger daughter in the back row. (The back row must not have more than 136 lbs in the seats.) The Sierra was more than a foot longer than the J with shorter wings and was very stable in the air. Perhaps the best thing for you is that the Sierra sells for less than a Mooney with the same engine. I would avoid any 3 blade props on the Sierra. Don't get me wrong, I love my J and it climbs to altitude faster than my old Sierra, but compared to a partnership the Sierra should be in the running.

Actually, I do not have liability insurance for passengers and except for my own family I do not fly with passengers. I do think most everyone else who takes passengers in underinsured. I gave the example of two people injured so badly (at Falmouth Airpark) that they could not be interviewed about the accident when the instructor was killed and after the injuries they were both badly burned. I wonder how much insurance would be needed to compensate the couple for lifetime medical care, loss of income, pain, suffering and disfigurement. Just because I don't buy hull insurance doesn't mean I am exposed as much as pilot/owners who fly with a couple of passengers. BTW, after my 2004 accident with a fire on board, hard IFR and no vacuum, my flying days were over in the Beech Sierra and I bought the J because it would glide so much farther if need be.

While you can't sign away the rights of the estate, you can always give part of your estate to someone to settle a debt or defend against an action. (I knew this would cause all the armchair attorneys out of the woodwork.) So let's just say it wasn't worth the paper it was written on.

I was certain that I would hear the "waiver has no power" issue, however this one was designed to act as a conditional codicil against the estate of the passenger. It was too difficult to rely on in Massachusetts because we couldn't easily identify the will of the client or if the client had already enacted Personal Real Estate Trusts or other Irrevocable Trusts leaving the estate nearly empty. Also the signatures of disinterested persons made the routine use of the document difficult. So I gave it up. Strictly speaking it wasn't a waiver at all. A person certainly can leave part of his estate under certain conditions to certain people. One lawyer I knew simply wouldn't sign it, so he took the bus from Hyannis to Woods Hole and then the ferry.

BTW, I personally believe that most pilot/owners don't carry enough liability insurance to carry passengers. Back on Sept. 12th 2012 a young instructor took his student to land at Falmouth Airpark on Cape Cod. The student owned the Cirrus SR22 and his wife sat in the back. The runway is 2,298 ft long and 40 ft wide with tall trees on the right, the left and at both ends. The plane ran off the left side of runway 7 across the grass and into trees. The instructor was killed and the owner and his wife were so badly injured and burned that neither of them could be interviewed. How much insurance do you think you'd need to cover all the lifetime medical claims, along with lost income claims and for pain, suffering, permanent injuries and disfigurement? Do you think you have enough insurance to take along a couple of passengers if this type of accident happend to you?

To answer the question about passenger risk; I haven't flown a passenger beyond my own family in more than a year now. In fact, where I originally did my primary training they will no longer allow any of their instructors to give me a BFR because I don't carry this type of insurance and they know it. In the past I did use a waiver in case I needed to fly with one of my clients. The waiver stated that among other things; "flying in small airplanes exposes the passengers and pilot to considerably more risk than flying on scheduled airlines, yet I agree to accept this risk and hold (the owner/pilot) harmless from all claims and I assert that I have secured the necessary insurance and other securities to rely upon in the event of any accident that causes injury or death.." etc. etc. I simply told them that my lawyer had prepared the waiver and that I needed them to sign it if they wanted to fly with me.

There are certain intangibles about not taking insurance. Off-island I keep a completely restored BMW 750 V12. My youngest son wanted to use it to take out a special girl, but I told him there was no collision on the car and I slept well knowing it was locked up. Perhaps if he had driven it he would attempt to show off. In church on Sunday we say, "Lead us not into temptation...". Then there's the old saying about bold pilots and old pilots... In general it's good to assess the risk before you launch into the great blue yonder. Of course, life or death is the greatest risk. No insurance can bring you back to life.

BTW, I think we should all agree that there are many risks that shouldn't be taken and flight conditions that shouldn't be attempted. Excellent training and proficency should stress this fact. The old U-turn is often the best strategy. Over-confidence can kill. It's surely true that many mistakes are dumb. - Back in Aug. 2008 a pilot with a commercial pilot certificate with ratings for single and multi-engine aircraft with an instrument rating was acting as a pilot for Angel Flight and carried two passengers on a flight to Boston Logan. It was instrument conditions and the pilot was corrected by ATC a few times during the instrument approach before he lost control and crashed in a parking lot. All three were killed. It turned out that the pilot was not IFR current. I have wondered if the insurance company paid the claim as he made a very dumb mistake. What a responsibility and risk he took! - Part of my plan has been to avoid insurance, but part of my plan has been to avoid excess risk too.

I suppose that at least half of my savings comes from the fact that my liability insurance does not cover passengers in the plane, nor damage to other planes. I'd have to crash into a house or hit someone on a golf course to be covered. I don't think for one minute that any of you are foolish for buying aviation insurance. In my business I've seen many business people take all sorts of terrible risk. I've seen guys buy businesses with huge amounts of borrowed money even though they know little about the business. Sometimes it works, sometimes they go bust, and yet these same people will buy a car on time and pay the insurance company to protect the bank. They'll buy a large screen TV and get the extended warrantee, they'll rent a car and buy the collision damage waiver even though their credit card covers them, They'll even buy insurance at the post office for a box they're mailing. I appreciate everyone's insight. I totally agree that aviation insurance pays for many dumb claims and I hate to jump into that insurance pool, but if I'm ahead of the game now, perhaps now is the time to reconsider.

Wow!! I love that story. Good for your friend - and here I am taking that risk. I must admit, if someone hand props his plane and it runs through my rented hangar or if I'm taxiing and his plane hits me, I'm screwed. All I would have is my deduction for uninsured losses and my saved premiums. Your friend was certainly lucky.

One reason I like going light on insurance is that it helps me avoid super-strong gusty crosswinds and other risks because I don't want a prop strike or some other problem that might be costly. In that way, going light on insurance may make me a safer pilot. On the other hand, when it comes to health insurance, I think going light with high co-pays and expensive fees for medication can encourage people to avoid quality medical care and in the end cost them their health or even their life. It's a shame to face financial ruin and a very sick loved one all at the same time. - When I read the insurance stories in the MAPA Log my blood begins to boil when the author goes through all the technicalities that can be used against the pilot to deny a claim or to explain how you might misunderstand how you're not covered. - Nothing makes me happier than to read stories of other pilots who came out ahead on their insurance. It always seems to me that insurance companies hate to pay no matter how long you pay in, and when it comes time to collect on a totalled car it seems that the payout is always far less than you think it will be. But maybe I'm being unfair to those generous insurance companies out there.

Greg, I don't know where you figured I was a low time pilot or that I'd pay $2,500. I thought that since 1984 I might have saved $60,000, but maybe that's too much. I thought it might cost about $2,100 per year for hull insurance and I suspect that buying all-inclusive liability insurance that covers passengers of the airplane would be far more expensive than the route I took. I now have over 4,000 hours and with my old daily commute I have accumulated over 10,000 landings. I live on an island with no bridge and I commuted off-island to Cape Cod for 15 yrs and to Norwood (near Boston) for eleven years before that. The J is my third airplane. Of course I pay for a truly combined liability policy for my business that covers all sorts of liabilities including an enhanced liability policy, but I think buying a million smooth of aviation insurance is an expensive way to go. - My wife figures that if I crack up the plane and lose it (and don't buy another) that we'll save money by me not spending on the bird. I ceainly hope I never hurt anyone and I hope the same for you.

Insurance always benefits someone. When I sell insurance I sleep well at night.

An umbrella policy that covers only damage you do to other persons or property (but not other airplanes or aviation related property) and does not cover passengers, isn't difficult to buy if the airplane is owned by your company. I try to always get the best bang for the buck. Why else would I own a Mooney?

I agree with Hector. It will pay off for some and not for others. Also, if you self insure hull insurance, it will pay off for most but not for most others. If you have no insurrance for true disasters, it will pay off for most and completely bankrupt others. My decision could never bankrupt me. I was wondering if anyone would accept the risk that I have, but so far no takers.

Hey remember, I'm only talking about hull insurance and comprehensive insurance to cover auto body damage. I truly hate taking poor risks. In my entire life I've never bought a lottery ticket nor have I ever been inside a casino anywhere in the world, but I've driven by their front doors many times. I'm sure a few of you have purchased hull insurance and been happy. As for me, when the wind gusts up to forty I begin to think like an insurance company and I avoid exposing myself to risk by taking the plane up that day. Act, invest, and insure prudently and things will work out fine. - BTW if I killed someone on the ground I'm covered for more than 2MM smooth and of course I wouldn't want to hurt anyone. It's just that I think most accident insurance designed to fix your airplane is a poor investment. I'm sure we could ask for stories of bad insurance company experiences and fill up many pages.

Remember, I have an umbrella policy that would cover me if I smashed into someone's house and/or hurt someone on the ground. Back in 2004 when I crashed on the Hyannisport Golf Course during the Robt. F. Kennedy Golf Tournament I paid out of pocket $6,100 to have the plane's wings removed and a crane to remove the airplane from the course. My settlement was just for the airplane. All expenses were also reimbursed to me, but the damn insurance company wouldn't give me ten cents until the the NTSB report was completed almost seven months later. So you need to have the money to self insure. Dan - I worked for Prudential Securities which ultimately became Wells Fargo Advisors, then in 2009 I moved my practice to Martha's Vineyard from where I had been flying to Cape Cod daily for fifteen years. I am not a CFP.

I almost never take on passengers from outside my family. However, I have taken that terrible financial risk on a sunny no-wind day a few times. But then again, some of us take the risk of death in an airplane by flying a single engine at night over mountainous territory.

If you have to buy an airplane a second time out of pocket (or with a home equity loan) instead of paying premiums for thirty years and then losing the deduction for uninsured losses, you should come out even. I do buy cheap term-life, so if I die in a plane crash my family is protected because my practice is worth far more than my airplane. (I am a Financial Advisor.) I do carry medical insurance because the losses can't be managed like the loss of an airplane. I really brought up the topic because vehicle and hull insurance can't truly save your family from disaster unless you own a very expensive airplane or car. On the other hand, I have made a great deal of money selling portfolio insurance and life insurance. There's no question that people want it. Personally, I have always considered premiums as losses. You give them the money and you don't get it back - that's alot like losses. Over the years the losses can add up to the value of your plane and then some. I'd hate to lose $2,500 every year.

I think if you buy insurance you'd have to be very, very lucky to come out ahead! Frankly, I've never heard of it ever happening over a lifetime. Subtract your deductible and the premiums and the tax deductions for uninsured losses and I don't see how you could ever come out ahead buying insurance. I'd love to hear from anyone who thinks the practice of buying insurance has helped them out over a lifetime.

I've been flying since 1984 and only purchased hull insurance for two years. My company has an unbrella policy for me that covers liability (but not passengers). I've not only saved about $60,000, but I collected more from insurance that my plane was worth. Back on Oct. 15th 2004 a mechanic fixed a hot mag for me but failed to reconnect the fuel pressure gauge and fuel was spraying into the engine like perfume from a perfume bottle. The engine stopped and I crashed the plane on a golf course. The first thing the adjuster for the mechanic's insurer asked me was how much I had agreed my airplane was worth on my own insurance. I told him I had no insurance and the plane was worth $150,000, Of course my old Beech Sierra was probably worth $72,000, but after I signed a waiver holding the mechanic harmless if I ever suffer trama, such as back pain, I was paid $85,500. My original thought was that uninsured losses would be deductible against gains, but as it worked out I was paid an $85,500 settlement that wasn't taxable at all. How can people fly for 30 years and think that they could possibly come out ahead with the insurance companies? Am I the only one? BTW, I never have carry collision insurance on my cars either, even when I buy brand new. Tell me that I'm stupid if you think so.

A year and a half ago I had my tanks sealed in my J at Weep No More in MN. The cost was $7,800. There was no weight penalty and the results are flawless. Since bladders cost more and weigh more I can only assume that bladder lovers must assume they are so much more durable than a great seal job that they wish Mooney built their planes that way. Personally, I don't think bladders are worth the weight penalty and the price, but it's your money.

Maybe we should list major projects completed. We had four kids. Paid for two Penn State grads, one also from Princeton and one Boston College education. They have no school debt and neither do I. The major accomplishments of my life are done and I still own a Mooney!

Used to own boats... Now I'm down to a windsurfer and a two person kayak and have never been happier.

OK - Not really doubting you, but if 24-3000 through 24-3056 were actually built before 24-1686 can you tell me what they had in common? Were those planes all 205's? I'm also wondering about the planes built in 1988. Were any of them outside the 3000 series or with other SN's higher than 1686 that was built after them?