galt1074

Cruiser, Thanks, realized that after I posted my response to his question...oops. One would think that this is a very common occurence considering the requirement to have a safety pilot when practicing under the hood and that there would be specific guidance on how to log that time...I mean very specific. I guess I shouldn't expect much considering how the CFRs are written. Greg

double post

Peter, You got me on that one. I forgot about your position and the fact that you probably already knew the answer to that question. I don't know if you know Kevin but he's a nice guy and I enjoyed flying with him. Do you fly out of Cutter? I'll keep an eye out for your bird. I fly the Spec Ops MC-130s on the other side of the ramp when I'm not sneaking off to fly Del Sol's Arrow...I fly it about every other week or so and I love the PFD/MFD. Greg

Oddly enough it was an Aspen PFD and MFD with Garmin 400 GPS and...now that you mention it I do think the radios were Bendix/King. I guess he knows the guy that runs Aspen Avionics and I just read they are partnering to finally release the MFD770. I made a joke about this being a spy flight to steal the Aspen PFD architecture and he thought that was pretty funny. Anyway guys, I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest but I think I could log PIC if we had agreed from the outset that I was in charge of the safe operation of the aircraft while he was under the hood...maybe I could anyway but since I don't really need the time I'll just log it as SIC I think. Greg

Thanks Mike...it looks like I'll just log it as SIC time for now. Maybe next time I fly with the guy we'll actually make an agreement of some sort. Greg

Quote: Cris Here is an easy tutorial http://www.flypierce.com/?page_id=760

201er, So in this case, he rents the aircraft and both of us are fully qualified in the aircraft and for the type of flight. He tells me before we take off that I am the safety pilot but we never stated that I would be the PIC...though I did correct a couple things and help him with some local airspace since I've been here a while. In the best spirit of the intent of the CFR, what would you say I should log? I don't need the time, I've got more than I'll ever need to get a job after the Air Force, I just want to log it properly. Greg

I'm commercial rated...don't think that applies.

Okay, so it sounds like I log PIC. He was under goggles, I am fully qualified in the aircraft to include being instrument qualified and current on everything. It was "his airplane" in that I was flying on his dime and for his practice. So I guess he logs PIC time because he was manipulating the controls and I log PIC time because I was responsible for maintaining safe seperation and backing him up? That to me sounds strange but you guys are better at this than me. Greg

Strange thing just happened. The local FBO just called me and asked me to fly as the safety pilot for a new pilot they have that just got checked out in the Arrow II. It turns out this guy is the new President of Bendix/King Avionics!! Pretty cool guy and he said he is doing some serious work on making them competitive again. Anyway, I've been reading through the CFRs and I think I should log SIC time for being his safety pilot...does that make sense to you guys? The military doesn't log time the same way civilians do so I'm still learning the rules. Greg

Thanks for the clarification. The $15k a year was a low-ball figure for what I would spend renting the local Arrow II for 100 hours. And I can't take that airplane out for a week because the FBO charges $300 for each day it isn't flying. No aircraft payments in that figure because I plan to pay cash. I guess the point I was trying to make is that I could fly around in a 172 and spend about the same per mile or hour as I would in a Mooney so why not go in style and get there before my wife's bladder explodes. Greg

Okay, so your $30/hr airframe reserve is for annual and upgrades and the $20/hr engine/prop reserve is for overhaul savings. I can live with those numbers I think. What I'm quickly realizing is that it doesn't get a whole lot cheaper than $15k a year to fly any airplane 150-200 hrs/year so it might as well be in an airplane I own and in one that can get me where I'm going quickly. The dream has been a long time coming so hopefully it is just around the corner. Thank you. Greg

Sir, Wow, thanks for the breakdown. I'm really taking my time with this as I gather the money and shop around. Looking at an F or J model to be able to haul the family. I too would be using it for cross country trips and I'd like to be able to fly it frequently. Your information lines up with what I'm seeing in my research. My only hesitation is the annual inspections. Do your hourly airframe and engine reserves account for saving for your annual? Thanks again for all of the information. Greg

Hey guys, its me again. I'm still searching for an airplane and waffling as to whether I can afford the machine I really want. I was hoping some of you could share how you budget your maintenance, hangar/tie-down, fuel, etc. A guy at the local FBO told me this site http://www.planequest.com/operationcosts/op_cost_info.asp?id=175 was pretty good for estimating cost of ownership. Except for the outdated fuel price, do these numbers match what you have seen? This is a great forum and I really enjoy following your conversations. It's nice to see that peope outside the Air Force drag each other through the mud about miniscule topics just like we do. It shows you care about your craft and that's a good thing even though it might get painful once in a while. As an aside, there was a gentlemen I was speaking to at one time who is here in Albuquerque. He offered me a ride and a talk but I don't have the contact information anymore. If you come across this and are in the ABQ area and would be willing to talk airplanes, please shoot me a line. Greg

Greg

I don't have any experience with the Apple products, but I have an Android with an App called Navigator. It's great for moving map, and airfield information. It's only about $50 for a yearly subscription or about $5 a month. No XM weather or ADS-B at least as far as I can tell but it is a very simple App that works great for simple VFR flying and is pretty handy as an airport directory. The only to figure from there is what screen size you are looking for. Just don't count Droids out...I plan on getting one of the tablets soon. Greg

Sorry about the incorrect data. I guess I am misreading the Garmin website because it shows over $900 for the full data subscription on the GTN series and the 696 series shows about $700 per year. I'm completely ignorant of how this stuff works on the civilian side so please tell me what I've gotten wrong here. Obviously in the military everything kind of automatically happens. http://download.garmin.com/avdb/Garmin_Aviation_Database_Price_List.pdf Thank you all for the information. My inclination was to have a portable GPS as I will be renting for a while but I know that stuff is not STC'd for use in IFR. I'm trying to walk the line between being able to afford to fly with GPS data which I know from experience in the military is safer due to decreased workload and being legal from the standpoint of the FARs. I kind of think it might be a more simple IFR GPS hooked to a CDI and an EFB with WAAS for situational awareness...obviously not for guidance. Yeah, when it comes time I'm only buying the airplane with the avionics that I want already installed. I've seen how much the boxes and the installation costs. Thanks for all your help guys.

Well said. I've been on car forums and it gets ugly fast sometimes. I myself have a bit of a temper especially when it comes to the things I love the most...airplanes. I have recently side-tracked a conversation (fantom knows what I'm talking about) and I'll make every effort to stay professional and light and I'll try harder now that I've seen this.

Hey guys, First of all, thanks for being a great resource for my ignorance of GA flying. I've been working the budget and trying to figure out what I could afford on a monthly basis with respect to maybe buying a Mooney someday. Part of what I have to budget for is data from from Jeppessen, XM weather, etc. Now, I think the Garmin products are outstanding and I have already searched around and I know I'm supposed to buy "the best of avionics I can afford" and most are going to say thats a 430W/530W. However, the full data subscription from Garmin is somewhere North of $600 a year and that is money I could potentially use elsewhere. I know you get what you pay for but I can get a subscription from Seattle Avionics for less than half of that and it appears to include everything and more that the Garmin subscription includes. However, I cannot use a portable system (the only thing I've seen Seattle Avionics supports are EFBs) for certified IFR flight. Lets just pretend that those are not available and tell me what else is out there. What else can I put in a panel that will give me IFR legal enroute and approach capabilities. The Garmin products are so ubiquitous it is hard to find information on anything else. Thoughts? Greg

Quote: Swingin It really takes 7 or more aircrew, being busy as hell, for you guys to arrive and depart? I can't and won't speak to mission execution, since I've never executed your mission. If you want a good mil-friendly insurance company, PM me. They will also do all the paperwork with HQ AF to get you blanket auth to land on a mil field (PPR still required, but you're on the master 'insurance' list). Pete

Quote: DaV8or Have you ever killed all the engines on your C-130 and dead sticked it in for a landing? I have with every airplane I have checked out in, including my own Mooney. I have a pretty good idea what the glide looks like and what I can and can't make with the engine off. This mental sight picture is what I use to determine usable runway. As to rotation, again it's a bit of seat of the pants. The POH gives a guideline, but I really just feel and let the plane tell me when it's ready to fly. In mine by myself, it seems to like 70mph, so I shoot for that.

Quote: airfoill What is WAG, RSC, RCR and drag index? We're flying single engine aircraft here. The POH in my airplane has specific speeds with regards to performance and what to expect with speeds, climb, clearing obstacles, stopping performance, etc. I don't understand what you mean by charted vs uncharted speed.

I thank everyone for the replies. I'm just trying to wrap my arms around the decision process that takes place in the cockpit of light aircraft without the data that I have available. I'm a very precise person, by nature or training, and I tear students apart for using "about" or "kind of". DaV8or I think says it as well as it can be put. The best answer in aviation is "it depends". If the environment you fly in necessitates leaving your gear down and sacrificing some performance in order to make a safe landing in the case of an engine failure then so be it. I just think it is great that you guys have this discussion beyond simply "that's how I've always done it." Thanks guys.

Quote: fantom

I'm intrigued by this discussion. I don't have a Mooney, never even flown one, just shopping. I barely have 10 hours in an Arrow II with retractable gear and I was amazed that the CFI that checked me out insisted that I not retract the landing gear until there was no useful runway left. This raised a couple questions in my mind and those same misgivings (I think) have been re-stated here. I'm a military instructor pilot on MC-130Ps. We have four engines and over 16,000 horsepower so some of this may be off-base. The Air Force teaches, "2 positves, gear up". When I have an indication of increasing altitude and positive VVI I bring the gear up to make my charted climb performance. Unlike GA, there is a very specific speed schedule that we always fly. It doesn't matter what phase of flight I am in I have a to-the-knot speed schedule that I need to be on. If I do not retract my gear within three seconds of lift-off, feather the dead engine within 6 seconds of it dying, and retract my flaps on speed to meet charted obstacle clearance speed, I am not guaranteed to clear my obstacle. Now obviously this is different for me because I have four engines and you guys have one...but I don't see how you can plan for what you are going to do in every eventuallity of power failure. You can however plan to clear the obstacle at the end of the runway by retracting the landing gear in accordance with your POH. Now, I don't know how in the world you even decide when you still have usable runway when you don't have any charted speeds or distances in the first place. (That POH line about rotate at 65 to 75 knots is NOT a charted speed...that's a WAG. I'm talking about, drag index, weight, wind, density altitude, RSC, RCR all goes into a chart and you come out with a rotation speed and a distance from brake release to clear a 50 foot obstacle.) I have a speed and a distance charted for nearly every scenario I can imagine so I am very sure when I have runway in front of me that it is or is not enough to stay on the ground but I would never put a fast airplane back on the ground with the end coming up quickly unless there were at least double what I had used to takeoff. You have to consider that you have to descend and land and then you can get on the brakes. You guys that have flown these airplanes a while might be able to WAG what that looks like but I'm pretty sure it would be a WAG at best. Next, an off-airport landing for me is always gear down. But I have extremely tough gear and I plan to use it as a shock absorber since I essentially have no way of going end over end. I would assume in these airplanes that there is a fair likelyhood of going tail over nose so in that case if I were ever to land on something that wasn't paved off airport I would be inclined to land with the gear up. Your gear can't abosorb that much and the nose gear must give you some danger of flipping...and then you are pretty much dead along with your passengers. Please, I'm not an expert in these airplanes so tell me how I'm wrong and tell me how I'm right. I'm trying to get back into GA but the mindset is very different from what I am used to and I need to learn. Greg