donkaye

In actual practice I don't find that to be the case. OTOH I've only done it with the Stockton ILS. To add a little complexity to the situation, the VNAV descent is occurring within the loaded approach, on the first turn where the hold is unsuspended, but before the FAF.

I would expect that to work because the constraint is the VOR. In my case above the constraint was the waypoint, but then there was the descent in the hold back to the waypoint. I ran the simulator and it showed a constraint in the hold.

With regards to certain holds, I'm not sure this "holds" true. In particular HILPT. For example the ILS into KSCK. If I am at 5,000 feet and receive the following clearance, "Cross IPDEW at 3,000, cleared for the ILS 29R Approach", and have set up VNAV, the plane will meet the crossing restriction at IPDEW and descend in the hold to meet the 1,800 foot crossing back at IPDEW. At least in my experience.

If that is the case, then why does it work with the GFC 600 and why can't they do the same with the GFC 500?

I've used Phillips X/C 20/50 in all my 3 engines. I have been filling with 8 quarts and use about 1.5 quarts between 25 hour oil changes. Recently Mark from Top Gun recommend only using 7 quarts, since I have been having some small amount of dripping from the breather tube, so I will try that in the future.

I'm not sure I understand the underlined sentence. When you say "TOGA was not set up to sequence the GPS missed approach", do you mean you don't have to push the NAV button? Or do you mean you push TOGA then push the NAV button to execute the missed, the latter being the way I've seen all GTN/GFC 500s set up. Sorry Marc, I know it was not you intention to convince either way, but you have not convinced me to enable autoswitch.

While I was always aware of the "box" for auto switch, I didn't give it that much attention. I should have. At least now I know why I don't want to use it.

The reason I wouldn't use TOGA before the MAP is the lack of lateral control (this is momentary after the MAP). The upside is guaranteed pitch up., but that is easily handled in a couple of seconds with ALT (stop the descent), NAV (to maintain lateral control), Altitude Preselect (set the missed approach altitude), and VS or IAS (to get the plane climbing). I'm open to input if you can show me why TOGA is a better alternative in this situation.

I want to thank Marc for starting this thread. Here are my takeaways. Preface: I've been flying with the GFC 500/GTN combination since 2019. I've flown it a lot both doing approaches in Actual IMC and practice approaches in VMC. I had not done missed approaches before the MAP, so this was a beneficial thread from that point if view. The only issue I've had was with the autoswitch when running ILS approaches. 1. Based on the "box" for accurate autoswitch, since I have no intention of taking the time to figure out whether I'm in the box or not, I will not be using autoswitch. (I haven't been using it anyway after my issue with it. At least now I know the reason for it). The monitoring whether it's going to switch or not and the actions to take if it doesn't switch takes more time than just doing the switching manually. I've had the same issue as Adam when doing the Stockton ILS. At least now I know the reason. 2. When going missed after the MAP when the splash screen appears, I will continue to do it as I have in the past before going through all the machinations we have been discussing here, ie, aviate, navigate, communicate. That means TOGA, Power, Cleanup, HDG or NAV, Talk. 4. If I ever want to go missed before the MAP, it will be ALT, NAV, Preselect a new Altitude, Power, VS (or IAS), Roll up the Rate for either. At the splash screen tap it and I'm off on the missed approach. In this situation I wouldn't use TOGA. Thanks for calling my attention to going missed before the MAP.

So it occurs to me that the clarity I thought I had from the above was misplaced. I've got a call into Garmin, but don't expect a callback in the near future. Here's the question: If the missed approach is activated among other times before the MAP and guidance is provided along the extension of the final approach course and the TOGA button is pushed, which takes precedence, the TOGA button that only provides pitch and wings level, or the GTN which provides along course guidance? It would appear TOGA, but that defeats the along track benefit of the GTN stated above.

One other point may be of interest. ALTV vs ALTS. ALTV would be annunciated as a VNAV altitude while ALTS would be annunciated as a Selected altitude. Thus, if you were on a VNAV profile ALTV would be annunciated beside VNAV. If you were told to stop descent, ALTV would change to ALTS for selected altitude.

In this video I deliberately failed to Arm VNAV. I let the VDI descend before I Armed VNAV. I then tapped the VS button and rolled the VS down until the VDI started up. The VS annunciated Green and indicated the VS while the VNAV showed White. On intercept VS went off and VNAV went Green showing VNAV was captured. I didn't go a good job of showing the VS button going off. Same for the final annunciations. However, if you look closely at the end you will see I got the camera up high enough to show the proper Annunciations.

It's sometimes helps to take a look at the PIlot's Guide. Yellow highlight is mine.

Yes. The VNAV will go to ARM, and the VNAV deviation carrot will continue on down. When ATC gives you a descent, you can then hit VS, adjust the wheel for a large VS and possibly recapture VNAV. If you do recapture the VNAV slope, the VS light will extinguish and VNAV will continue.

Thanks, Skip. I put in the "CDI source to GPS" because I couldn't remember if the CDI autoswitched when flying the missed after an ILS approach. Of course it wouldn't be necessary when flying GPS approaches. When given the option, and assuming the minimums are the same, I'll always fly the GPS approach over an ILS now. Since Marc's posts both here and in another thread, I have experimented extensively with approaches using the GTN in conjunction with the GFC 500. Some of my conclusions: I don't like "autoswitch" when running an ILS approach. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. When it gives up the ghost when flying a HILPT, It establishes a 45° intercept angle and blows through the Final. I have much better control when I am established on final in GPS mode and then switch myself. This is especially true when flying a VNAV descent in the HLPT, and it switches before the descent is completed. Let me say that "Transition to Approach" will be a nice addition when it is approved for the GFC 500. I absolutely LOVE the ability to switch approaches and airports when on a missed approach. This has allowed me solo to ping pong off of 4 very close airports (KSNS, KOAR, KMRY, KWVI) doing multiple different approaches to each airport, while having the time to pick up either ATIS or AWOS, change frequencies, write down new clearances to different airports, monitor the flight, and communicate with ATC without going into overload. I have to add that a big reason for being able to do all this reasonably effortlessly is by making heavy use of the Aera 760 on the yoke for frequencies, runways, and approach charts, all things can can be done much faster on the 760 than on the GTN.

Maybe I'm missing something, but at the MAP I may want to fly the published missed approach even it I wanted to go missed before it. I've actually never looked at a menu Item "Activate the missed Approach". In any even I wouldn't want to activate it prior to the MAP due to potential terrain issues.

I didn't know about that. I'm glad mine wasn't hooked up that way.

If it is, I think it should be changed. I'd want to control the missed approach function. The scenarios below apply to my airplane. Follow the AFMS in yours. Scenario 1: Go missed before the missed approach point: Push TOGO, Power Up, On positive rate Gear Up, CDI source to GPS, Push HDG, Preselect altitude, Announce. Actions passing the MAP depend on ATC. If flying the published missed, tap Activate missed Approach on the GTN and hit NAV. If given alternate missed approach instructions, tap Activate missed Approach to enable the GTN to advance, but follow ATCs instructions in HDG mode and do not tap NAV. Scenario 2. Go published missed at the MAP: Push TOGO, Power Up, On positive rate Gear Up, CDI source to GPS, tap Activate missed Approach to enable the GTN to advance, tap NAV, Announce. If given alternate missed approach instructions by ATC, Push TOGO, Power Up, On positive rate Gear Up, CDI source to GPS, tap Activate missed Approach, tap HDG and follow ATCs instructions. Scenario 3. Go missed, but return for another approach to any airport: Push TOGO, Power Up, On positive rate Gear Up, CDI source to GPS, tap Activate missed Approach to enable the GTN, tap NAV. On the flight plan page, tap the current approach, tap APT and select a new airport or keep the same one, select the approach you want. When given a new clearance Activate the approach or follow ATCs instructions to the new airport. One of the big benefits of the GTNs is the ability to load a new approach to any airport while still flying the original the missed approach.

Exactly. For example, Mark said they had about a dozen no back springs on order and just can't get them. They finally refunded to the customers the money that they had advanced for them.

Mark runs Top Gun in Stockton, California, one of the major Mooney Service Centers in the Country. I've had my airplane serviced there since I bought it nearly 32 years ago. Cash for parts purchases by Mooney didn't seem to be the issue, since they offered to prepay for the parts they needed and were denied by Mooney. Mark seemed to think it was going to take pressure on Mooney by Owners to try to change their policy. Nobody seems to know why Mooney has taken this position on outsourced parts. Apparently, if a part can be fabricated at Mooney, they will make it, though.

A few more thoughts: While getting my 25 hour (recommended by Lycoming) $350 oil change today, I was talking to Mark who said getting parts not made by Mooney, but required to go through Mooney, are becoming nearly impossible to get. This is because he says Mooney will not buy externally sourced parts any more. They even offered to prepay for the parts and Mooney said no. Nobody understands their reasoning. Mooney is still making parts, but that is all. Expect parts to become nearly impossible to get for our airplanes in the future --- and the future is now. Regarding Annuals; the Mooney Maintenance Manual for my airplane says it should take 31 hours to do a proper inspection, and that only includes the inspection and not the repairs. My inspection alone last year was over $4,100. Go to a none Mooney Specific shop? Cheap for a few years, and then "Pow!!! There was a plane in the shop whose owner had done just that and it had over 120 discrepancies. Neither Mark nor the Owner were happy campers. The repair estimate was jaw dropping. Not withstanding my comments above, I can't imagine NOT owning an airplane. And the only piston one I would want is a Mooney. I've have mine going on 32 years and the adventures I have had with it have been amazing. If you want to sleep well at night, my recommendation has been to have no more than 10% of your net worth in your "toys" including airplanes. With that allocation you should be able to handle any unexpected expense that might arise, and believe me they will arise. It may seem comforting to do a pretty analysis as was done above, but expect it to be blown out of the water in actual practice. Regarding flying for business, AOPA came out with a new Webinar that would be useful to the OP and everyone else. Here it is: https://bit.ly/alc-1093

See my website for my Battery Minder setup with battery switch box for initial conditioning of each battery. www.donkaye.com

My plane without TKS or air-conditioning has an empty weight of 2383. With a maximum gross takeoff weight of 3368 that means the useful load is 985 pounds. There is a maximum landing weight limitation of 3200 pounds.

I can and have flown a 10 hour day in the Bravo. Mooney somehow got the seat angle perfect for long term sitting. I did a 2.5 hour engine break-in in a C182 a couple of years ago and couldn't wait to get out of the airplane. The seat angle was just not good for long term sitting for me.

An elegant spreadsheet was developed a number of years ago by one of my students who was an engineer, and I have adapted it to every airplane in which I teach including the C310 Twin. You can easily play "what if" scenarios with it. It does require you have access to Excel. For the Bravo all you have to do is enter the empty weight and CG from the Weight and Balance section of the POH. Here's a screenshot. I've had my Bravo for 31 years. It's a 4 person airplane with 50 gallons of fuel and 50 lb total of baggage. It's a 3 person airplane with 60 gallons of fuel. It's a 2 person airplane with full fuel and full baggage. You can increase the useful load by close to 30 lb by removing the back seats (takes about 10 minutes). The above assumes no TKS. You'll have to email me for the file because Excel files can't be attached here. Email: donkaye@earthlink.net