carusoam

Don't forget the Camloc pliers.  They cost about $20.  It works so easily you will want to take all of them out, just to put them back in.....

Without the pliers, scratched paint and pinched fingers.....

-a-

I think the final post on the Mooney Missile discussion was that Rocket Engineering was at the end of supporting the existing planes.  Though they still offer an "if you want it price". 

I think the larger issues are the concern for sheet metal fatigue on the horizontal stabilizer caused by forces from the larger engine, and nose wheel damage from supporting extra bouncing landing weight. 

One wise opinion called the conversion a possible can of worms. 

There is one missle owner on this board.  He has a plane up in cape cod.  Can we inspire him to chime in?

If you gentlemen have the connections with the Rocket Man,  Could you ascertain an owner's perspective on real maintenance issues and costs.

I seriously considered a 201/missile conversion, but could not find further maintenance insight.

-a-

Looks like Lood and I saw the same thing at the same time....

Lood,

I think there are two things.

[1] I do not see a set price "buy it now price", just a current bid of $40,300.  There is a note that indicates "reserve not met"  which means that the owner has a set price in mind and won't sell below that price.  I am pretty sure the bid price will rise to meet the market value of an M20J before the reserve is met.

[2] The airframe has 9,325TT.  This has been somebody's work horse.

Do you have better knowlege of the actual price?  If you wan to be aware of the bid activity on ebay, you can find and click on "watch this item" link.  If there is serious activity, you will see the bidding sky rocket towards the last 5 minutes of the auction.

Good luck.

- Anthony -

Is this related?

I had encountered outages with a portable Garmin unit (GPS 196).  It occured in the same place heading to Sun 'n Fun twice.  I happened to speak with one of the engineers (Antenna Guy) at the lowrance.  His quick response was "do you have Narco radios."   Apparently the high noise output of the radio blocked out the ultra low GPS signal.  The amount of noise is related to the frequency that is tuned in.  Whenever I lose the GPS signal, I found it would come back after frequency changes.  Of course, flying a mooney, once you lose the GPS signal it may be difficult to get back because you are moving too quickly.

Questions:  What other radios do you have that are from the pre-digital era?  Did you change frequency, then lose the signal?  Did you get the signal back after a change of frequency?   Did you only get the signal back after landing?

Sounds like an antenna, noise or grounding issue.  Best of luck.

I am sensing momentum here.

Mooney owners generally will spend 2-3 AMUs (or large) for technology that works, vastly improves safety and reliability.

The government's glacial pace has improved (possibly due to global warming).

Examples: Tort reform and the return of GA aircraft construction, Self certified LSA manufacturing.

Have we found the next step?  Is it possible that an electronics company would be interested in selling more of the low cost units to all private pilots (not just pilots of experimentals) based on self certification? 

I am pretty sure the LSA system has worked for airframes (with their electronics in place). 

Is AOPA interested in this type of grass roots movement?

Can anyone suggest a next step?

10 years with a 1965 M20C went by so fast.

Looking forward to 10 more, this time with a 1994 M20R. 

The mission has changed over the years it now includes big kids, and now theres room for their legs.

Best regards,

- Anthony -

I did my battery experiments on an M20C using Gill 35 vs Gill 35 (sealed) - Zeftronics controlled 50A generator

- old style caused repaint of the battery box each year but lasted 3 years.  No matter what white powder protection was used or acid resistant paint that was applied.

- sealed battery worked equally well only lasted 2 years.

Having a mechanic remove the battery box for repaint probably cost more than the battery itself.  This was an annual event.  The 50A Delco generator was strong enough to charge the battery at 14v.  Battery always showed 11.9v while resting. 

Sealed batteries were slightly more expensive than standard.  The rate that battery acid can eat aluminum keeps me in the sealed recombinant technology camp.  Flying more often is probably good for the battery's longevity.

Sorry for putting C data in the J column, but I think it is relevent.

Best regards,

-a-

Cap tightness is adjustable also...

Not only are there two O-rings, but the bottom assembly can be rotated to make the overall tightness increase or decrease by the height of one thread for each rotation.

(from experience) When all is well, there should be no water in the tanks, even if you park outside...Condensation is measured in drips, not in cup fulls...

I noticed how serious the leaky collar ring was by observation while flying in the rain.  I could see bubbles of air leaking out at the rings.  The first hint was cupfuls of water.  The second hint bubbles while flying in the rain.  Time to get help, water in the fuel is pretty serious.

draining water from the fuel takes 15 minutes - 1/2 hour of drain and replace, slosh the plane, drain and replace, slosh the plane.  Sitting on your butt on the wet pavement, pushing on the nearest tire, listen for the slosh.  Of course, don't slosh too hard, the water droplets break up and won't find the drain for an even longer time.

An amazing amount of water can be hidden somewhere in the tank.  Even after following this procedure, I have still found a few ccs water in the tank after the flight.

Check the collar that the cap seats in.  They have a tendency to rust through without much notice.

See my post on the other thread for fuel caps for additional detail.

I bought new caps for my M20C direct from Lasar.  What I found was that the collars that they fit into were rusted through.  I do recall reading about stainless steel replacement parts for the collars.  I think they were a story in Coy Jacobs magazine.

I sought professional help from Air-Mods and Repair in NJ.  They gave recommendations on replacement with used and available alternatives.

Upside down in the footwell while trying to work on the panel is a horrible experience.

The experience:  First you remove the seats.  Your legs and butt hang out the door,  you place as much cushion as you can find on the door sill to pad your back, your torso and head are down hill in the foot well, you've placed your tools exactly where you need them, because there is not enough room to turn and look for them when your are in position.  Then you realize you still can't see what you went in there to work on.  Now you want to get the mirror and pen light.  Try and back out of the down hill position that you stuffed yourself into.

Each time you drop a tool, or a fastener, it bounces off your head first and then dissappears somewhere next to your ears.  You can't move your arms around freely because the footwell is not big enough to let your elbows bend.

I'm sure you get the idea...

If someone else does your panel work all of the time, it's probably not an issue.  If your panel isn't 40+ years old it isn't an issue.  If your hydraulic cherry juice doesn't leak, it isn't an issue.  I always seemed to find a reason to go back there to see, fix or fill.  (with mechanic approval, where necessary, of course)

My M20C had the single piece windshield in the position of the original windshield. 

Outside access is a beautiful thing.  I suppose the look and speed of a sloped J windshield is nice also.

1965 M20C - VFR flying, Manual gear and flaps.

Insurance: $1,200 per year

Tiedown: $1,200 per year

Owner Assisted Annual: $2,000 per year

NJ location.  Only one surprise in 9 years of ownership.  Overhauled prop and govenor.   Not really a surprise afterall, but a little more expensive than an ordinary annual...

Other families spend this money on a one week vacation.  Our family of four, used it for weekend getaways and beach trips.  Averaged 75 hours of flight per year. 

Our plan was buy it, if it did not fit our lifestyle we would sell it. 

As a wise man has posted here before.... Your mileage may vary.....

Best of luck.  Oshkosh anyone?

I have sold my '65 M20C.  While searching for its replacement M20J,  I have come across a few Rocket Engineering conversions.  I am interested in your knowlege and opinions of the upgrade, The upside is clearly advertised, what are the "hidden" downsides.

Background according to Rocket Engineering:  "The 300 hp, normally aspirated, Continental IO-550-A engine provides out of this world performance for the Rocket Engineering 300 Missile conversion."  "Hartzell 3-bladed, full feathering propeller especially designed for the Missile conversion with low noise and high performance."

Thanks for your insight.