hazek

Thanks. Got almost all covered but yes I need more crosswind practice. When I say I got them covered I mean I at least have the theoretical knowledge, of course practical knowledge is what I am building now and no training can really provide that in the scope needed to really be good at everything. For example I use flysto to track my landings to make sure I'm within good parameters for my approaches as well as rollouts. As for engine management, I've learned quite a few tricks already, for example I close the cowl flaps in cruise before I reduce the throttle from cruise climb to cruise setting, seems to reduce the cooling rate in the moment of power reduction. I also go mixture full rich already slowly right after gear down to spread out the cooling in the final approach. I used to do it on final or on base which combined with reduced throttle again resulted in a lot of cooling all at once. I trim religiously, most of the time I can let go and the airplane will keep the speed. And I've read and reread the KFC150 manual and I have a good grasp on what it can do and how although I barely use it right now as I try to handfly as much as possible in order to gain more handflying skills with the plane becoming better at keeping heading/alt. GTN650 I was very familiar with from before as all our club's planes have it. Plus I use the sim app on my ipad to refresh my knowledge from time to time. And well the six pack is the six pack. I built my own checklist so I went through the procedures for all phases with a fine tooth comb several times. I have a pretty good grasp on various emergencies and on the various systems and how they could break. I religiously check my engine monitor data after flights, to make sure I manage the engine well. The biggest fear I have is a gear up landing and somehow ruining the engine or the turbo and exhaust. I've done a few go around already, I always maintained good control and I religiously refresh the procedure before every landing in my landing briefing. I'm well aware of the nose up surprise, the need to trim nose down immediately, and the need for a lot of right rudder. I like the 5 C's mnemonic, but I've adapted it for the bravo: Cram, Check (that prop and mixture are full forward, speedbrake off, boost pump on), Clean, Cool, Call. I've slightly bounced a few times and always had a nice landing afterwards, I know how to hold the nose and wait for it to settle or when the bounce is high enough to go around. I plan to take an UPRT course soon. My biggest fear is what I don't know that I don't know. I try hard to learn from accidents and be safe. My biggest weakness is overcontrolling. I'm now religiously forcing myself and reminding myself to not touch the elevator in mid day bumps down low and I force myself to make slight gentle pressure inputs for corrections especially during landing. It's a work in progress. I don't know what else I could be taught other than crosswind practice but I'm very open to suggestions. Very much so.

Sorry, that was unclear yeah. Lowest RPM setting that is still in the green range is what I meant to say.

Takeoff - Max RPM Cruise Climb - Cruise climb RPM Cruise - lowest green range Descent - descent RPM

Yes, I do. RPM is one component of the power equation: Power (hp) = (Torque × RPM) / 5252 So you can get the same power at either higher RPM or bigger torque. Why lower RPM is advantageous?: Better propeller efficiency: Lower RPM optimizes blade angle, improves thrust, reduces drag, saves fuel. Reduced engine wear: Fewer cycles, less stress, longer engine life. Lower noise: Slower prop reduces tip speed, quieter operation, less fatigue. Improved fuel efficiency: Lower RPM reduces frictional losses, better BSFC. Smoother operation: Less vibration, more comfort, less airframe fatigue.

I'm looking to completely refurbish and modernize my Bravo. Does anyone have any good references for this kind of work specifically for Mooney aircraft or in general?

Dear experienced Bravo drivers, I'm a 200TT PPL pilot with 40 hours on my own Bravo. While I believe I'm reasonably safe in my plane, I'm still very green, and I know there are things I don't yet understand. I read these forums extensively, so I feel I have a solid grasp of engine management. I understand the POH is essentially marketing material when it comes to performance and contains some oddities, outdated checklists, and procedures. It is what it is, and I'm aware of its limitations. I plan my descents carefully, fly by the numbers, and slow down early rather than late in my approach. I currently fly VFR exclusively but am working toward my IR (not yet in practical training). My landings are generally good, and I don't float excessively. With the goal of learning as much as possible, would you kindly share your most important lessons? I'm working hard to stay safe in this plane, and any wisdom you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

I'm glad we cleared up the fact that you said: And what I actually said is: Btw as you can see by my reaction, I don't like it when people misrepresent my words.

Thanks for sharing that. I will change my procedure.

I didn't make a comment like that, now did I?

@donkaye, MCFI Could you maybe point out some of the gotchas that one might miss? Being based in Europe I have no clue who could be a reliable expert on the Bravo available to me. The instructor who signed me off is a captain on a 747, with extensive knowledge in general and also his own high performance light aircraft but I admit not Bravo specialist, and he was willing to sing me off. I must have displayed some competency. But you are right, I don't know what I don't know. So please, if you have any advice I'd happily receive it.

If this was a response to me, then I think you are mistaken. Yes, obviously if you increase fuel flow while LOP, you would get more power. But you would also get higher EGTs and higher TIT, which could be higher than desired. At some power setting, these temperatures would simply be too high. So, there’s a clear limit to how much power you can achieve while operating LOP and still keep temperatures within safe limits. This is only feasible with a turbocharged engine, as without a turbo, typically at cruising levels there isn’t enough air available—adding more fuel would just push the engine back to the ROP side once higher up. However, the big mixture pull doesn’t address the issue of higher temperatures. Its sole purpose is to reduce the time spent at peak cylinder pressures—that’s what the technique is designed for. By definition, LOP means operating lean of peak EGT. If we increase FF, the peak EGT will absolutely rise. This means that, in absolute terms, a relative setting like 35°F LOP will result in a higher absolute temperature than it would at a lower power setting, no matter how you reach that LOP point. Since going further lean of peak EGT than about 50°F is impractical—due to inefficiency and the engine likely running too roughly—we’re limited in how high our LOP power setting can go while keeping temperatures in the green. Whether you use the big mixture pull or another method, there’s an LOP power cap beyond which the engine runs too hot for the turbo and exhaust system.

This is not me doubting you, just want to point out that the Bravo POH does state the order as flaps APP, gear up, flaps UP. Any chance you might have an idea why the factory would state that order in stead of yours?

This exactly is also my understanding. You've stated it very clearly. I actually emailed Mike Busch what he thought about this approach to avoiding the red fin (never got a response). But my concern in general is and I'm still unclear about adding in more power while RPM is kept the same. To me this is analogous to a car in a high gear at low RPM and then further opening the throttle to develop more speed rather than shifting to a lower gear. The engine will struggle initially under high load as it gains RPM but is it actually bad for it? Especially if done slowly? I know this isn't what happens in our engines but it sorta is, isn't it? In other words, my concern in general, not just when LOP, with increasing power without changing RPM is this: is going mixture rich, high RPM always always ALWAYS necessary to protect the engine before increasing power? Do I have to go full high RPM, or is 2400 enough? Or can I, except when going for climbing power, keep RPM unchanged and increase power very slowly, if the increase is a few inHg only, and it will not damage the engine? But anyway, as you very well put as well Rick, the temps are the problem. Getting to LOP, EGTs will have to peak for the power setting one has. And that peak can put TIT much higher than desired. The higher the power setting one sets before leaning, the hotter it will burn at peak EGT. Once LOP the ~35dF drop in EGT might not be sufficient to lower the TIT to a safe temp which I understand to be max 1600dF. Basically the limitation on highest power setting LOP is which LOP power setting has a peak EGT minus ~35dF at an acceptable level so that TIT is below acceptable levels. -35dF or thereabout because it's the sweet spot and leaning further and deeper into LOP territory is also more inefficient! But back to the topic. I'm on my first year of ownership. Well, co-owernship. I have no idea yet what the costs are, especially since it seems like the plane has been neglected for non essential things and has many little squawks that need fixing, not to mention it could do with a facelift in all areas. As for flying it as a low time, VFR only for now, pilot, as everyone says, if you can fly by the numbers, have a precise plan how to manage the engine and the speed, it's ok. In the beginning one can also just simply fly a bit less efficient and slow down much sooner before entering a traffic pattern and then it's not much different than flying a C172. Still a bit faster of course, but with gear down at 20" I'm usually at about 100kt which is perfectly manageable speed for VFR traffic patterns. I started with about 160TT and have now 40h on it and I find it perfectly manageable to fly and I consider myself safe. I also didn't need some extensive training to get checked out, only a couple of hours. But I did spend a lot of time reading about the plane and flying an Ovation in a sim at home to get a feel for timings before.

Great catch!

A demonstration video would be nice. Some testimonials..

I'm just over here in Europe watching this fiasco unfold wondering why we can't have nice things. Why do people have to lie. And why the world can't agree on reality. All of it is stupid. Just stupid.

Everyone carries extra speed. Some foolishly add extra to the extra to be "safe".

@ddevito would you be able to post some engine data to back up your story?

Some demos would be good to see.

I should probably add, with this mount: https://mygoflight.com/collections/mount-to-yoke/products/flex-clamp-yoke It works very well because I lean it to one side off center so that it rests on the yoke. That way it doesn't move ever.

I fly with the iPad pro 11 like this: It's perfect for me.

All the sources I could find say this not to be correct. Example: https://www.avweb.com/flight-safety/technique/turbulence-v-speeds/

Yes sure, for that it makes sense. I too don't go below 20"/2000 in a descent and for the same reason. But then how would you answer my original question?

Alright, thank you! I think I have my answers.

From the parts catalog: That doesn't look like the same schematic. Hmm