khedrei

Sorry, might have not explained it properly. It's not an easy switch. Obviously people are using these units. If someone is willing to sign a field approval and do the paperwork it seems it can be done. Aerox are not AI's they are distributors so I was looking for someone who had experience doing the install.

Alright, I think some of you guys might like this. I have a few replies now. Two people from Aerox have told me that I CANNOT change from steel to composite. The Oxygen Lady also told me basically the same thing and that there is a ton of paperwork but even then it might not be able to be done. So it looks like I have to go with a new steel cylinder and they can test my old valve, if it fails I need an overhaul $$$$ I am open to any suggestions to get around this. Of course the 20lbs of weight savings would be nice especially since I have to replace it and the cost difference will be minimal between the two types of cylinders. Any mechanics on here willing/able to sign off an installation of a composite cylinder on a Canadian registered aircraft?

The above post got it right and match what I was told. Mine has a 24 year life limit. I appreciate the replies. I will look into contacting the people mentioned above to see what I can come up with. The reason I posted here is that all of these companies basically told me at KOSH this year that there is no composite solution available to me in Canada because there is nothing that is STC'd and we do not have field approvals here. I would have thought they would have been itching to sell me a system. As I said, I will send some emails out to the contacts above, but if anyone with a canadian aircraft found a kevlar solution I would be very interested in hearing what they came up with. Thanks again

Do they just snap onto the canulas/masks of the onboard system? or are they installed as part of the onboard system on the main tank/regulator?

I can't seem to find a solution to this so I think I need some help. Recent annual. Tank is beyond it's life and needs to be replaced. This appears to be much more complicated than I thought it would be. The built in tank in my 231 is a 76.x cubic foot steel tank. Aerox and Mountain High both have composite models that can replace this one. They appear to be a 77 cubic foot. There is a 115 cubic foot but would require larger bands. Ideally I would go with this option. Both tanks are significantly lighter than the steel tank that I have in there now and are available to buy but it seems that I have an issue with the regulator. I talked to both companies at KOSH and they both said the same thing. The current Scott regulator will NOT fit into the new composite tanks. My understanding is that the regulator will need an overhaul if it is to be used again in a new steel tank, but it is no longer made. They said they can sell me a new regulator that is made for the composite tank, but it is not altitude compensating. So basically if I open the valve it will not give me a proper dose of oxygen. At least thats the way I understand it. From what they told me, it seems like there are parts, fittings, or other system add ons that can make the system work but none of them are STC'd. That is where my problem comes in. They said I can get a fiel approval (337) but those don't exist in Canada. I was told by a mechanic that I can bring the plane down to the US and find a mechanic who can install what is needed to make the system work who can give me a 337 even though the plane is registered in Canada. I guess this is because the plane was certified by the FAA so it's no issue. Summary. -I can probably get a new steel tank and overhaul the current regulator. -Composite tank will require a new regulator that can compensate for altitude and I will need to find out more info for it to replace the system and have it function as is. This is the idea option. If anyone has experience with this, (particularly with a canadian plane) please let me know. I am aware that there are other threads in here that talk about this and I have read through them and I don't see anything that covers the regulator issue. Thanks all

Figured I would update this thread. I was able to solve the rigging problems. I had to be my own advocate a bit and push the shop to dig deeper in the manual. They admitted they were not experts at rigging a mooney, and also admitted they did not know that the trailing edges could be bent on the rudder or ailerons. They thanked me for pushing them towards the solution, admitted they learned something and covered that visit under warrenty so I ended up paying for some fuel as well as AP software updates but the rigging was basically paid for in the previous visit and covered under warrenty for this visit. I was very happy with their professionalism and their willing to aknowledge their errors. I wish more people could be like that. Going on a long trip very soon so I will find out if the AP update smoothed out the pitch twitch or not. In the end, they told me that the ailerons needed another slight adjustment, the right flap got dropped 1 degree (a bit annoying cause looking out the window in cruise I can tell it's a bit lower) and the trailing edge was bent (I believe twice) to find the sweet spot. The plane now flies dead straight at 28" 2500RPM and about 3/4 fuel with hands and feet off. Thanks for everyones input and for posting the paragraph regarding the rigging.

I just wanted to comment on this because I had a similiar rigging issue that is now solved. I have yet to update my original post. I have a K model. Your speed will definitely affect things. Without rudder trim, the plane can only be rigged to fly straight in a very small envelope. If you are going too slow, there may be too much right rudder. In my case, ailerons were originally adjusted incorrectly. They rigged them again, adjusted the tail into spec, dropped one flap 1 degree, and then bent the trailing edge of the rudder every so slightly as per the maintenance manual. It flies dead straight with hands and feet off with about 3/4 fuel, and at 28" and 2500 RPM. Im told that with different amounts of fuel, and obviously different fuel balances on each side will have an impact on things. My main concern was to make sure the new Garmin servos weren't working too hard. They have all been replaced once, and one was replaced twice. It sounds like you have a good shop who is confident to be able to fix it. Good luck to you.

Thank you very much for this documemt @PT20J im going to print it off for them to use.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about this product for trim. I definitely don't want it. http://www.aerotriminc.com/id2.html It shouldn't be needed on a properly rigged airplane.

Thanks @Z W Spoke to the shop. They seem willing to take the plane in again and have a look at things and they want to make it right. He mentioned possibly installing a rudder trim. I saw the one he is talking about and I really don't like it. I hope they can straighten the tail properly without having to resort to cutting a hole in my rudder to install a goofy trim tab. Florida is really a hike but ill do it if I have to. It's going to cost 3k just for the trip. Ideally I find somewhere closer if these guys can't figure it out.

Thanks for the replies so far. @LANCECASPER I didn't think any 231's had rudder trim, just wanted to make sure people knew my plane did not. If they were to offer me advice, I wanted to include as much info as possible beforehand. @EricJ I will look into the flaps being a potential problem. I will inquire about the Rev 5 on the GFC500. That could be the fix for it. Does anyone know of a good Mooney shop in the area of say... Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Pensylvania, upstate New York? Basically somewhere I could get to within an hour or 2 of Toronto. We have less options here in Canada and if these guys can't fix it then I might be able to get faster and more reliable service in the U.S. I gotta get this fixed by the end of this month as my big trip in June will surely destroy the servos if things are that far out of rig.

Having some ongoing issues with rigging and my AP. One is annoying, the other seems to be a bigger problem. I will try to make it quick. 1980 M20K 231, Merlyn wastegate, LB engine, no rudder trim. Full Garmin setup, G500TXi, 750xi, 650, GFC500, G5, etc GFC500 AP servos were replaced late last year under the Garmin extended warrenty. I had already paid for one to be changed before Garmin fessed up to their mistake and then had all of them (including the one already replaced in 2022) replaced. After this I noticed some annoying pitch twitching. It was small, and generally wouldn't show more than 100FPM up or down but often no indication on the VSI, just felt the annoying twitch. It was very much a twitch rather than an oscellation, and quickly over. I never remember this AP doing this before the servos were changed. When they changed out the servos, I had them check the rigging of the ailerons, as the plane seemed to roll to the right with the AP off and the controls were also permenantly tilted to the right. It has been like this since I got it in 2017 but I figured this was a reputable shop, and while it was in, I wanted to fix as much as possible. I conceeded that the control yoke being straight was less important than the rigging being straight. They made what seemed to be fairly large adjustements on the ailerons on both sides. Yoke still not straight though. When I got the plane back, I noticed the twitching, and that the plane still pulled to the right with the AP off. Back to the shop, flew with their pilot who used to own the place before he retired and left it to his family and he acknowledged that there was a problem but he believed it to be in the rigging of the tail because if left rudder was used in level flight, the plane would fly straight. I agreed, and they proceeded to make some adjustments as well as clean and lube the controls, and adjust gain setting for the AP twitching. I have the plane back and it took a while for me to get a good test flight in smooth air to test it, but the pull to the right is very much there. In fact it is probably worse than before. At cruise flight, trimmed, power set, A/S steady, if I disconnect the AP the plane will yaw to the right pretty aggressivly and be over to 20 degrees of bank within a few seconds. It seems that I can hold it straight with some left rudder. I think my space might be full but I will try to attach some pics and videos but a quick summary: -The right aileron is up slightly (but noticably) higher in straight cruise flight regardless whether I have the ball centred with rudder -The airplane DOES fly about 4-7 knots faster in cruise flight with the same power settings. I do the same trip often so this is easy to see. I always found this plane to be slow for this model compared to others, so maybe we are on the right track with the rigging. -Last trip (which is where I noticed the rigging isse the most) the plane seemed to be constantly banked to the left by a degree or so, I assume because the ball is to the left so the AP is fighting a slip and the YD can't put enough pressure. I know the YD is not rudder trim but I would have thought that with a slight deviation it would keep the ball centred. -Will flying around misrigged destroy these servos and if so, now quickly? I'm trying to get this sorted before a huge trip I am planning in June. -We originally thought the twitching was caused by moisture in the static line because it didn't happen in PIT mode and still doesn't, but they told me they blew out the system. It's slightly better now than it was at first, but not as good as I remember. Two questions 1. Does anyone with this model airplane without rudder trim have the issue in cruise flight in smooth air where they MUST use left rudder to prevent an agressive turn to the right? Or should this plane fly "Pretty damn straight" hands and feet off? 2. Has anyone else noticed any of this "twitching" in pitch with the AP on in ALT mode. It is even present in a VS climb or decsent. Should this thing be on rails in smooth air or are my expectations too high? They are trying to figure out what to do next. They are a pretty good shop but if they are going to keep charging me and not fix this I have to figure out another route. Any input that I can share with them would be greatly appreciated. Kevin

So when pigs join us in the sky... Or by themselves cause we are all grounded.

I second the above poster. Take the chain to a bike shop or even hardware store. Looks like all you are missing is the retaining clip. The size might be tough to match. I could only assume that the clip is still somewhere in your belly. Maybe it just fell off and needs to be bent back into shape?

Thanks for the replies so far. ramaircraft Boeing Spruce airpower aviation unlimited Southern Cross Aviation ...as well as a couple others all have no current stock. Spruce is working on something for me but she said likely not till November. I should find out more from her in a couple days. A friend of mine ordered 4 of them from 2 different places a couple months back and said he would sell me one if he gets them. I am hoping mine passes inspection. As long as it does I should be fine as long as an order comes in before July of 2025. If anyone knows of anywhere that has stock, I am all ears. Perhaps the continental people are just the unlucky ones... I got a few prices around 425-600 USD. Will cost me 1k CAD im sure by the time I get it here.