irishpilot

Alan, I'm sure someone will post what hardware is out there. However, proper currency training yearly with a CFI/II will be a better long-term investment. I think buying hardware is a band-aid fix to bad landing habit patterns. Mooney's are just not that hard to land and your wheels are a few feet away from your butt.

If you bring your plane to the Phoenix area, I'll be happy to spend a few hours with you. We can even knock out a BFR if you need one.

-Ryan

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You going to Sun River next week?
Tom

Tom, not this year. I am bummed, but am shooting for next year.

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Also, talking to turbo owners, they say to a pilot, once going turbo, there is no going back.

I'm one of the ones who went turbo back to NA. That being said, I live in AZ and only go into the high terrain a few times a year. I went experimental to keep the speed and still get the simplicity of NA. I plan for 175 kts, and usually see 180-182 ROP, 177 LOP.

However, for the OP's stated mission. Turbo is the way to go.

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Commuting adds pressure for performance, so I'd say that you'd need an Acclaim or Bravo for the turbo/high altitude performance in mountainous terrain. I bought my Bravo for commuting from TX-AL, but wanted FIKI and used it several times to get through unforcasted icing. I planned for at least 500' ceilings, and no flying into areas of known icing. I'd fly over/under it or around it, but I wouldn't plan to fly in it.  The Bravo's Achilles Heel is the useful load. If it is just you, or you and a passenger, the plane is awesome. If it is for a family, you'll be leaving a lot of bags and fuel out. Mine had a UL of 862. 

Mx is going to be higher on turbo birds, but that is to be expected. Watch out for the G1000 orphans as they can't easily be upgraded. Acclaims are awesome and if they are in your price point, go for it. 

I sold my Bravo when I no longer needed to commute. I have a Lancair ES with the IO-550 and love the simplicity of that Continental. I think you'll hear a lot of the same from the Ovation guys because the engine loves LOP, has decent performance up to 15k, and goes quite fast down low. My Lancair burns 12.5 gph LOP and around 15 ROP. A Bravo will burn around 18-19 gph, and only a few folk have gotten them to fly LOP. 

Mooney or Dugosh. I've used Dugosh for an annual and I was happy with his knowledge and thoroughness.

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Jeff, you fly it similarly to how I do. I do 95% flying 8,500' and above, so I'm always WOT and 2500 rpm below 10k (2550 above).

Hopefully other Ovation owners can chime in regarding their temps as it may be a known airflow issue with the cowling. If not, then I'd start checking things off the list.

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Jeff, swapping a probe is an easy way of ruling out a bad probe and the temps you suspect. I fly the IO-550 in a Lancair, so the airflow is going to be a bit different, but the troubleshooting remains the same.

I had #2 high EGT compared to the rest of my cylinders. I ruled out a bad probe, then concentrated on ensuring the baffling was correct with no tears in the uppers.

If that checks good, then you can clean out your injectors. That's what ended up being the issue for mine. Speaking of injectors, do you have the TCM balanced injectors or GAMI?

Also, what power setting are you noticing this issue and is it the same ROP and LOP?

The IO-550 is an awesome engine.

-Ryan

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Cold winter days are a big factor.

I flew into Colorado Springs over Christmas break and OAT was -10F. I saw 315-330 CHT. However, ops tested that my cabin heat can't keep up with that kind of cold.

The cowling and baffling are different in a Lancair than they are in a Mooney. May be the difference in CHTs.

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how far on the lean side are y'all running to see less than 300 CHT?

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I have the 550N in my Lancair. It's a great engine.

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For a continental, it's gotta be real low before I'd pull jugs.

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Bummer! That’s really frustrating.


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The only benefit to doing that is if you want them to overhaul and get a warranty. They are easy to disassemble and Precise will sell parts, but they will pressure you into an overhaul.

I had a speed brake that failed and it was a broken spring. A&P helped me pull, replace, and install. Out $30 plus A&P time.

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I would watch the Useful Load of the FIKI or Air Conditioned Ovations.  This Ovation Ultra lists for 940 lbs UL.  If you have 3 doctors/pax on board, you may only be flying an hour before getting to your IFR reserve.  And possibly still above the maximum landing weight of 3200 pounds when you get there, if your doctors are heavy or carry a lot of gear.
  
-dan

This. Long body Mooney's are comfortable, stable, and fast. But UL is the limiting factor. Sold my Bravo for the reasons Dan stated. Needed a four person plane, not a 2 person + bags plane. However, if you routinely use it as a 1-2 person flyer it is a time machine.

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ceep, welcome to Mooneyspace! Lots of factors that go into finding the right plane for you. Intended use (mission), budget, and mandatory vs desired equipment are three big drivers.

I recommend you set a budget before seriously looking at planes, get your IFR ticket, find and meet up with various Mooneyspacers and get a flight in the models you've narrowed down.

Everyone here has great insight and can give you the pros/cons on the various models.

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A simpler platform with newer avionics and a lower-time engine seemed like an option to consider. 
Hence my dilemma.

You just went through the 1st sortie “eye opener”. I’d say don’t make any major plane decisions for a hot second. My best advice as a CFII is spend the time and money to take consistent training for your IFR ticket. Don’t drag the training out over a year plus. Proficiency and building upon achieved competencies will pay major dividends.


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Turbo planes require a little more attention to the engine monitor. However, it sounds like your current plane needs a modern engine analyzer. The Ovation engine is awesome. Flies LOP and ROP, and is pretty darn simple to set for power settings.

I recommend learning in the plane you plan to use for your mission, whatever that is. If you are in the market, look at what you have, how much to upgrade the plane to what you'd like, then look at what you're willing to purchase for an Ovation.

All Mooney models are stable IFR platforms. Memorize and fly your pitch and power settings for climbout, enroute, descent, holding, precision and non-precision. That's the best thing you can do to build some thinking space for the procedures. Too many pilots guesstimate their pitch and power settings, which breaks down their instrument crosscheck.

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I'm sure there are closer places to you, but Don Maxwell and Dugosh both have great reps and I've dealt with both. Don gets booked out way in advance, so plan ahead. 

Regardless of who you choose, be prepared for a fairly high 1st annual. 

IP,
What %hp are you typically using…?

29/2400 ROP. I never got my Bravo to run LOP but didn’t really work on doing that, either. Disclaimer - I no longer have that plane.

I use the same planning and descent rate with my Lancair ES (IO-550). I descend 500 fpm and stay LOP until I get to 20” MP and then I enriched as I’m about 5 mi from the airport. Believe it or not, but the fixed gear ES is very slippery and I have to be 15” MP or less to get it slowed down to the white arc.


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San Antonio approach asks for IDENT for most aircraft on initial call.

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500fpm descent is helpful…
400fpm descent is better for getting the altitude back as forward speed…
Assuming smooth air….
Either way…. You probably need to pull the power back significantly if using 500fpm…

You do not need to pull power for 500 rpm decent in smooth air. At least not in a FIKI Bravo. It’s pretty self-evident if you need to pull power or not real-time. If you’re uncomfortable going into the yellow or it’s rough, then pull power.


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cruise power and 500 fpm. Used my 530W descent point to hit my target alt at destination and enjoyed the increased speed.

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Just to follow-up, I (finally) received a replay today from APA with an insurance quote. They want to bill me $9679 for a 12 month term. I did not see any requirements for a checkout - likely because I already own a 231, but that rate appears excessive.

That's crazy high. I paid $2400/yr in 2020 for my Bravo. Rates have increased a bit, but not by that much.

Lots of comments from really smart people so far. My $0.02 is if you're not willing to fly in the O2 levels, the Bravo is just a wee bit faster than your current plane. However, up high this bird shines. 17.5-FL230 was my long distance jam and I saw 195 with a FIKI bird.

It's all about mission and cost.

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 I think B-Kool changed ownership, and it seems like all of them have supply problems these days.

I ordered directly from them a few months ago and it shipped immediately. I called and talked to them prior to putting my order in. I was pleasantly surprised on how fast it shipped.

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@MICKEY . I bought B-Kool and am happy with it in my Lancair. Similar cabin size and I can taxi with the cabin closed and get airborne in comfort. If you can't find what you're looking for, you may give the cooler based ACs a look. I'm in TX with 100+ wx and it's been nice. My wife will fly during the heat of the day.

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