zx6rrider

Not sure I really like its loooks either, agree its kinda high priced. More curious than anything. If it were local I'd probably kick the tires and see what the guy was thinking but its a bit far for that. From googling, sees like Butler was a very short period and not a ton of info

Tell me about the Butler tail. Good, bad? Impossible to fix if damaged or can standard F parts be used? What else was different when Butler built them? http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Single+Engine+Piston/1971/Mooney/M20F/1769982.html

And sometimes things get left out of log books.... I went and looked at an F this weekend, took an IA I used to work for and a friend. After opening up a few panels, it appears that both wings have had alot of work done to them. Nothing that we saw in the logs explained it. Some of the ribs and spars had primer in between them, some didnt. Light bucking marks on the top skin and to top it off, the left outer wing skin was not aligned right, had and obvious angle to it when you stood at the end and sighted down the leading edge. This plane has been owned by the same people for almost 30 years, as far as I understood there was no damage history to it other than a prop strike (not gear up). Needless to say I walked As for the questions; I'm with you, I call and get as much info as I can before I go trekking across the state or country to look at an aircraft that I have no interest in. I've weeded out a few others before I finally decided to take the time to look at this one. I learned a good bit on this go but still lost alot of time and some money. At least I'm not sitting on a plane that I'm not happy with Good luck with your search...

I was afraid of that, was hoping for something more useful. Thanks for the detective work. Just a plane that I'm considering if the broker gets me any details, by the way the first conversation went, I figured I was better off asking here

Dont blame you one bit, good luck with your search

Whats in between the Alt and VSI?

Any update? That was a 5 page cliff hanger..... Good luck with your search. I too am looking, I love the brokers that say oh yea this is a SWEET plane but cant answer the simple questions that anyone with 30 seconds looking at a log book would know

I believe if your aircraft is based in Stafford (RMN) there is no personal property tax, the county got rid of it to attract people. Check on that to be sure but that is how it was set up when we lived there a couple years ago. Nice airport and not busy, plus its out of the SFRA

He sent me the scanned logbooks since 2008, no big name shops, all A&P signoffs but there has been a good bit of work done to it. The overhaul was C-Hunts Aero Engines, google is not turning up anything good or bad for that matter. If anyone is interested in looking them over and telling me your thoughts, I'll gladly forward you the email if you PM your address. Ill probably take a look at it, wish it was a better known overhaul but its made it 500 hours so probably ok. I think I'm going to start another thread and see if anyone knows this aircraft or the flying club, I'd like to here more history than the broker would be willing to let on to.

The TT doesnt bother me, just wondering if it would sell ok if for some reason we needed to get rid of it. I know the panel is kinda scattered and not much of an audio panel but I think it is something I could work with and not have to change right off. I thought he said it was a WAAS but its not listed as one so I dont know. Does the WAAS say 430W or is it the same looking? I'm going to call the guy who did the last couple annuals once I get the copy of those and see if he's willing to talk. Any thoughts on who a good prebuy would be in the ohio area? I'm an A&P but dont have enough Mooney experience to feel like I'd catch everything on my own. Plus insurance if something comes up the wife at looking at just me

Glad to see I'm not the only way with a minor bike addiction as well. Got some info on the other F that the broker has, Ill try and attach it with some pictures. What do you guys think, is 6000 hours high time as far as resale goes? Hes supposed to email me the past couple annuals and overhaul info tomorrow. My photobucket isnt working right so Ill attach the pics when I get it sorted out TIMES: TT : 6073 SMOH : 564 3-08 PROP : 564 3-08 RADIOS: COM 1 : Garmin GNS430 NAV 1 : GNS430 COM 2 : King KX155 NAV 2 : KX155 G/S : Dual XPNDR : KY76C 3 / LMB : PM1000II DME : KN64 ENCODER : Yes ADF : in 430 AVIONICS OPTIONS: B6 Autopilot overhauled 2007, 4pax intercom, Push to talk yokes, Avionics master, Music input, Data recorder, WX500. AIRFRAME OPTIONS: All Lasar speed mods, Lasar nose gear and shock mounts, Skytec starter, Remote oil cooler, Challenger air filter, M20 oil filter, ECI EGT, CHT, Fuel flow, OAT, Volt and Vac functions, Vent window scoop, Factory PC, Electric gear and flaps, Control pedestal. COLORS AND CONDITION: White with RED and Red trim in standard Mooney design, 1993 and in good repair. The interior is in red, gray and black trim combinations that looks clean and well done. DAMAGE HISTORY: Gear up in 1975 (709 TT) and no damage since, all logs, no hail or corrosion, Indiana or Michigan since new and looks to have been hangared by condition of original interior window trim that is in good repair, good glass and tires. ANNUAL DUE: 9/15 USEFUL LOAD: 1006 FUEL CAP: 60 PRICE: $57,500.00 OR TRADE

I bet, One of our main uses will be a 45 min flight home to visit family instead of a 2.5 hr drive. The wifes best friend is also moving .5 away Mooney time instead of 1.75 car so that was also a good sales pitch

Be honest GSXR, your trying to convince me so you can sell me your C and upgrade right? All good points, it does have me rethinking my theory and looking at all the early models. I'm going to try and check some out that are nearby and see the difference in person. My only mooney experience was with a customers C when I worked in Virginia and I was in the front seat. I'm sure your right about the passengers, of the couple hundred hours I owned the 150, most of them were by myself.

As far as "needing" an F model, I dont really know but the way I see it is I can always add upgrades to the airframe, cant stretch the fuselage. My wife and I plan to start a family in the near future so having an economical plane that can handle more then two is desirable. I hate to have to sell it when the kids legs get too long. Will I realistically have it that long? I dont know but it will be one less thing to worry about if I do.

Talked to the sales guy today, this aircraft has a deposit on it and looks like its gone. Sounds like the previous owner had an open checkbook for maintenance. Over the past 10 years he put over 90k into it, most of the work done at Freeway airport in MD. Like any good sales man, he has another"even nicer" one hes getting ready to put on the market. Its a 69 model with better panel, 430 (non wass) electric gear, nice paint from the early 90's, and most of the Lasar speed mods. Downside is over 6000 TT, 584 on engine overhauled in 2008 (not sure who did it but he'll check). 55k. He's getting pictures tomorrow and supposed to send them to me, I'll probably start a new thread and see if anyone has any info on it. N10CH, it was a flying club in La Porte IN i believe. Not big on going through a dealer but I may check it out since its close. Its registered to him so I guess he bought it, seems odd, I thought they usually just listed it for the sellers, maybe he got it broke for a bargain or something and is flipping it???

Thanks, I decided Ill give the guy a call in the morninig and get some more details. Hes only a couple hours away by car so that is also appealing. Bad thing is I walked right by it and peaked at it breifly when I was doing some flight training over there, wasnt seriously considering it at the time and I figured a broker would be asking a bit more. Looks like only one nav indicator, shouldnt the kx155 and kx125 have nav outputs? Is it still feasable to upgrade the positive control system to an autopilot (the threads I've ran across appear to be a couple years old) Whats the normal route with a broker? Call and get details, go kick the tires, look over the logs and take a flight than set up a prebuy? I guess he will probably want to see pre approval which wont be a problem.

Thanks for the thoughts, I've yet to call the guy as I'm trying to make sure I'm not rushing into anything. I've been kicking this around for a week or so and thought I'd get some other educated opinions before diving in. The wife has givin me the "OK" but seems how I try not to finance a vehicle if at all possible, a plane is a big jump for me. Keep the thoughts coming, Thanks

http://www.aso.com/listings/spec/ViewAd.aspx?id=155759&listingType=true&IsInternal=True&pagingNo=1&searchId=15271962&dealerid= Whats your thoughts on this aircraft/price? I know there is no GPS but if its as solid as he says, it may be a nice plane to own for many years and eventually put one in. Looks like the previous owner was not afraid to put money into it by the upgrades and recent overhauls. I've been watching the market for a little while now and this one caught my eye, so much so that I've actually kicked the idea around of looking into a loan. Does a plane like this come around often? Is this something worth pursuing? Without getting into too much detail, we put alot of our easily accessible money on our mortgage a couple months ago to recast for piece of mind so I would need to finance. 1,000/ month would be doable for loan,insurance,hangar ($150) and fuel, would that be a reasonble budget? MX cost will be basically parts as I'm an A&P and have a good friend thats an I/A. Whats a rough insurance costs, 650tt with commercial/cfi Looking for any advice so feel free to say whats on your mind. Thanks P.S. somone buy this thing so I can forget about it

Yea the logistics seemed a but too complicated. If this was in a bordering state I think I would be making a trip and seriously considering it. Trying to get everything sorted out to go half way across country for a plane that may or may not be as expected and arranging everything with the seller is more than I want to deal with at this time. My first plane was a craigslist find that was a 45 min flight away. Kept it for a couple years, did a lot of work to it and sold it for what I had into it. Made for a good experience to keep the wife on board with owning a plane. Hate to spend a couple grand just to "look" at a plane if it were to fall through

Thanks for the thoughts. Just wanted to see what others opinions are. I've seen a few planes that seemed like they would be worthwhile but haven't been watching the market too long so wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking something. If it were an exceptional deal I may have considered taking a loan out but I really hate to take a loan out on a plane, I figure by time I made the monthly payment, I wouldn't want to spend any money on fuel. Obviously whenever I do decide to go through with something there will be a prebuy by a qualified shop. I'm an A&P but don't have a ton of experience with Mooneys and would hate to overlook something because its a shinny new to me plane. Also thought it might bring it to someones else's attention who is ready to buy

http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_887793_1967+Mooney+M20F+EXEC21.html Been keeping an eye on the market for future reference and ran across this one (gotta finish a house project or two and finish up my CFI first). For an F model with a nice panel and good interior I thought it seemed like a pretty good deal as long as the paints not falling off. Whats you thoughts? The gear up wouldn't really bother me if it was repaired right. If it were closer, I think I'd have to try and talk the wife into holding off on those projects and looking at this, besides it would save me the rental costs for my CFI right? I guess it is already near Maxwell's, so thats a good thing.

Ironic you say that, I was just kicking around the idea of finishing my CFI. I remember one case a few years back where a family was going after the instructor but don't recall many otherwise, although I haven't really looked. I figured there was a good bit of liability but have you heard of many actual law suits?

That made for a bit of a painful read but good luck with your aircraft and I hope you get it flying again. I spent a couple years working part time for a small GA shop and have seen alot of little things let go by the IA that are perfectly safe but probably would not have any legal documention to go by (manual, FARs,ect). The problem is, the aircraft are 40 years old and if every little nick and scratch was to be addressed everytime the mechanic looked at the aircraft, the average Joe would never be able to afford to fly. In the real world, there is times when making something LEGAL is really cost prohibitive. Did the previous mechanics notice the damage? More then likely, they probably looked at it, decided that it would be safe and let it go at that. If they wrote up every little issue, the aircraft owner is going to throw a fit, call them a crook, take their plane elsewhere and let everybody know to stay away from that prick. If he advises the owner that there are issues and leaves it up to them to fix without signing it off as unairworthy.... now he is negligant and knowinly let an unairworthy aircraft go. Whats the mechanic to do? No matter what it seems like either the FAA will be after him or the laywers at some point in his career. Im my case, I said the heck with GA, I loved it and would rather be working on airplanes but the liability and headaches far outweigh the enjoyment

Hawth200 Ill shoot you a PM to keep from derailing this into a motorcylce thread