urbanti

Having bought and sold a couple of planes, I thought I would start a thread that might help first time airplane sellers. Tips for Prospective Sellers, presuming that you have an attractive airplane: 1. When composing an ad and when dealing with possible buyers, keep in mind that the name of the game is to provide enough comfort to the buyer that they will risk $500-$1,500 on a non-recoverable prebuy inspection of your airplane. 2. Especially in connection with pre-201 vintage airplanes, some of these aircraft have serious deficiencies due to damage, or incorrect or deferred maintenance. Since virtually every airplane ad starts out with the phrase "meticulously maintained" you have to say more than that to be convincing. 3. It is important to convince the prospective buyer that you are aware of the pertinent facts regarding your plane. Its shocking how many sellers I've spoken with who sincerely attest to no DH, when two minutes of Googling will uncover several accidents regarding their plane. In those instances, its not the DH that runs off the buyer, its the question of what else the seller doesn't know that is disconcerting. Making accurate statements regarding inop equipment too, telling somebody the plane is in perfect condition and then a three minute walkaround discloses broken equipment or big blue stains under the wings undermines buyer confidence in the seller. 4. Have a recent annual from a credible, well-known Mooney shop can be persuasive. The guy on the field who works on Skyhawks and does your annual for $500 a year doesn't carry too much weight with buyers - many of them are woefully unaware of the various Mooney Service Bulletins, etc. While the MSC or Mooney specialist may or may not do a better job than your local guy, their stamp of approval may get the buyer to pull the trigger on a prebuy. 5. Pricing is important to get people to call on the ad. When calculating your asking price, its OK to ask for a little more than you may be willing to accept, but be very careful about asking for a number that's wildly above the average on TAP for your model a/c. I see a lot of planes where the owner has taken the price he paid ten years ago, and then added in the cost of every tire and battery he's installed. You shouldn't expect to get added value from normal maintenance, only from bona fide upgrades, and even then you shouldn't expect to get a dollar for dollar increase in the planes value. If your asking price in the ad is much higher than the field, make sure the ad explains why by noting all of the new features. 6. Be friendly if contacted about your plane, respond promptly with pictures by email, don't mutter about tire kickers, etc. Also don't be shocked and dismayed if a long distance buyer asks for electronic copies of the logs. There are a lot of planes on the market and buyers are trying to determine which sellers are honest and reasonable people. Now that I have some experience I don't pursue relationships with crotchety sellers even if their planes are very attractive. 7. Importantly, keep the airplane flying regularly. Many if not most a/c for sale haven't flown much in the last two years. This interjects uncertainty as to the possibility of corrosion in the engine and the buyer will not offer top dollar. Not an appraiser, just wanted to share my perspective Tim

Hi Lee. No immediate plans to sell the Bonanza. Always wanted a Mooney so continuing to look.... Had a line on a very pretty one but the PBI didn't work out. Hope you're well, Tim

Jon, has the plane been given an annual inspection by any Mooney Service Centers? Also, was your prebuy done by a Mooney Service Center? thx! Tim

Saw a 20C for sale by a private seller in Indianola, Iowa. Was just wondering whether there was a convenient shop to get a credible PBI. Thx very much for the responses, Tim

Any Mooney service centers or Mooney experts in Iowa that could do a prebuy? thx Tim

It's hard for other's to know which ADs apply to your plane because you have to comply with any ADs on equipment added since manufacture, in addition to the stuff that came with it from the factory. For instance, my plane has a replacement ignition switch added a couple of years ago that has an AD on it. As the previous poster indicated, you are supposed to have some sort of AD compliance list in/around your logbooks. In addition to a huge ADLog notebook full of documentation of my plane's ADs, I also created a MS Word document with a table depicting the ADs requiring ongoing compliance, this is a cheat sheet and a bit of a time-saver for my A&P. Also, helps if you eventually have to sell. best Tim

Just FYI, there is a school of thought among mechanics that periodically starting an engine on the ground without flying the plane for an hour or more can actually result in more moisture in the crankcase, with resulting rust in cylinders, camshafts and lifters. If you're serious, and if the plane is priced cheaply enough, this plane screams out for a really, really good prebuy. best Tim

Jetdriven - does you friend think that the corrosion was there when he bought the plane, and if so was it just not discovered during the prebuy? thx Tim

FWIW, I have looked into the back story on local abandoned airplanes and have heard the following scenarios: - once well-heeled owner fallen on hard times but continues to believe that next year will be financially able to fly again (meanwhile a/c is becoming so deteriorated that it may be uneconomic to make airworthy); - owner has lost medical but continues to fantasize about getting it back and is unwilling to let a/c go; - owner has passed away and a/c is snarled in some sort of multi-year estate snafu; - owner is incapable of maintaining/flying a/c but has unreasonably high valuation of a/c and drives off prospective buyers; and - owner is entangled in non-amicable divorce and lacks bandwidth/money/clear title to plane.

If possible you should try to get some flight time in well maintained examples of both brand M and brand B planes. A nice example of either would probably make you very happy, but they have distinctly different personalities in flight and one might appeal to you more. I was shopping for a 20J and ended up falling in love with and buying a F33A which has turned out to be a great airplane. The one thing I will say about Bonanzas is that they are very forgiving on approach and landing. I still love Mooneys, lurk on this forum, and may still buy one someday. good luck! Tim

If you were going to do a prebuy in UT, is there anybody qualified in state? Thx Tim

Thx Seth I'm looking to see if there is a decent Mooney shop in Iowa since there are no MSCs in Iowa. Thx again Tim

Pls let me know if you have a suggestion for a credible Mooney expert in the state. Thx Tim

I had my 172 painted by Lancaster Aero at Smoketown a year ago and they did some extra work and fogged the insides of the airframe and wings etc with corrosion preventative for $12k. I get a lot of compliments on the quality of the paint job. That being said, the downside to having a nice paint job is that you have to immediately deal with bird droppings and dead bugs or the acids will start eating holes in your paint, especially on the leading edges and on the nose of the cowl Tim

The corroded part in question is called out on the aircraft's previous prebuy by an A&P as "corrosion on elevator torque tube near battery box" Tim

Hi John In the pictures it looks like a steel tube since it has orange rust on it. best Tim

Am looking at a '67 Mooney 20F that is in overall really nice shape. However, the elevator torque tube has corrosion that my A&P friends all opine is more than surface corrosion. (Rest of plane looks vy clean). Please let me know your thoughts as to how this might be handled on a prebuy/annual by a hawk-eyed Mooney Service Center - are they going to go straight to replacement option, and if so how much would you guess a used one would cost to obtain and install? Thanks in advance for any opinions, Tim

Another request for a .pdf if one comes about, urbanti@gmail.com thx in advance Tim

I should have specified that I am most interested in vintage Mooneys. Tim

Pls post your recommendations for books & other articles you would recommend for a 700 hour Cessna driver looking to break into Mooney ownership and airmanship. Books don't have to be in print, I'm happy to pursue older books online, etc. thx in advance, Tim

Gentlemen - thx for all of the assistance. This process has made me very enthusiastic about vintage Mooneys. And yes, Bob Gawler is a great guy and a real resource at KGAI. Will let you know where I end up, and look forward to being a contributing member of the Mooney Space forum. Tim

Good afternoon to all. A couple of weeks ago my friend Seth posted a topic for me inquiring about converting C's to E's, so I thought I should introduce my self. I am a 730 hour PPSEL who owns a C-172 hangared at KGAI. I try to fly every day it is VFR, and am working on my instrument rating. Currently shopping for a vintage Mooney as my step-up retract. Have lots of questions, will probably start a bunch of threads, if I violate any Mooney etiquette please let me know best Tim N23GV