Don Scorese

More details……. JPI EDM 830 as it comes new in box from JPI. JPI list price $3,364. Includes manifold pressure, rpm, cht, get, oil temp, oil pressure, fuel flow, volts, wire harnesses, probes and mounting brackets. I ordered this in May 2022, waited 9 months for JPI to send. Decided to wait until annual to install, but now that I am having a difficult time finding a cht gauge For my 1990 J model, I decided to upgrade to the certified unit.

It is a full 830, 4 cylinder kit.

Brand new in the box JPI EDM 830 for a 4 cylinder engine. Purchased brand new and plane is in for annual now and having trouble finding a CHT guage. Going to upgrade to certified unit instead of installing the 830 unit. $2,900 call or text. 9 zero 8 - 4 zero 3 - 91 hundred.

As an accountant you may want to look up this paper who’s author shared the Nobel Prize for economics in 2001 for explaining the phenomena of pricing in “markets with asymmetric information.” Unfortunately, when you are buying on eBay you are participating in one of these markets. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons Very interesting article, thanks for posting it.

I agree it is an Ebay problem, and that's the warning. As for Bose, my problem with them is their absolute lack of effort to do anything. They can't even look up when they originally sold the unit and to who. If they told me on the phone they sold the headset to their retailer XYZ company in 2012, then I would have been happy with the service. But they claim they have "no idea" when it left their inventory. Really? I mentioned that I am an accountant, and there is no way they don't track $1,000 items. While I was communicating with seller during the transaction we went back and forth about which model he would order for me, so it seemed he was ordering it at that time. If it turns out the seller did in fact order it in March from them and they couldn't track a transaction back to March would be most unbelievable.

Just wanted to give a warning to my fellow mooniacs. I purchased 4 new sets of Bose A20 headsets on ebay in March. As an accountant I don't do any flying until after April 15th. One of the sets I purchased was defective. (When using panel power a loud continuous screech would blair in the headset, when using dual plug adapter only the left ear would work, but no screech). I contacted Bose (and I did register them in March) for warranty work. They told me the headsets were from 2012 and the warranty has expired. I told them the ebay seller advertised they sell "Direct from Bose to you" and it appeared they were an authorized reseller. Bose said they cannot track the serial number to determine who they originally sold it to (which, as an accountant, I find very hard to believe). Anyway, they left the burden on me to track down this guy on ebay and get all his real information (name address etc....) and proof of purchase and then if it is determined he was an authorized reseller they would honor the warranty. Bose was extremely dismissive, and as a lifelong Bose enthusiast, I was very disappointed how I was treated. But the warning is for anyone purchasing items off Ebay…..just because it is advertised as "New" may not mean there is a valid warranty. And don't expect Bose to help you afterwards. They said I should have taken the serial number before I purchased the headsets and contacted them to check the validity of the serial number. So it looks like if I can't track down the seller I will have to pay Bose $225 bench fee to fix my brand new headset. I guess it could be worse, but after an hour and 20 minutes on the phone with them and their outright dismissive attitude towards a 30+ year Bose supporter will certainly make me look at other options next time I am in the market. Oh, and Ebay wants nothing to do with it since it is past 30 days. I did use Paypal and they will open a case up to 6 months. So I am trying to contact the seller through Paypal. At some point, I would think Ebay will have to provide me with the sellers information if I want to pursue legal action. My first call to Ebay they said they won't provide that information to me. If I don't get anywhere with Paypal I will revisit Ebay. It would seem to me that if they are trying to help cover up the seller's identiy when there was possible fraud, false advertising etc.... that would make them an accomplice? I'm not a lawyer but it doesn't seem right that Ebay is the conduit to facilitate this transaction then help cover it up. Hope this helps.

Mooney had a mock up model at Oshkosh this year. I sat in it and spoke with one of the engineers. The new models will have a 48 inch wide cabin, 2 doors, sidestick yokes and a diesel engine. Will be composite material and it will not have a one piece wing spar. Sitting in it felt like sitting in a Cirrus except you sat a little lower, which gave it that Mooney feeling. They claim it it do 180 knots on 8 gph. It also is eother a 2 or 3 seater, woth the optional 3rd seat being in the center to provide better viewing. They believe that will be very useful for training, so they can have another student observing.

i am trying to figure out the best Hot Start procedure for an IO 550 N. For cold starts I have two procedures and both seem to work well. I am leaning towards using the procedure written in an article by Mike Busch....mixture in, throttle cracked, low boost pump amd crank. Hot starts I am not as confident I am using the best procedure. The one that seems to work best is.....mixture in, throttle in, high boost pump for 3 seconds, throttle slightly more than cracked, then crank....when it pops use low boost pump. This procedure works most of the time but it doesn't start as quickly as the cold start procedure. I am curious what procedure works best for others with the IO 550. And while I'm asking questions......is it normal for the trim wheel in an Ovation to feel much stiffer than a J model? Thanks, Don

I knew I would be pleased with the feedback on this topic from everyone. In summary, it basically sounds like an Eagle with the 310 hp STC will essentially be almost identical to an Ovation except for overhead switches (maybe), insulation/spundproofing (maybe), basic white paint, cloth interior if not upgraded and no built in O2 if not upgraded. If the STC has not been done then the Eagle 1 will have less climb performance, while the Eagle 2 with the 3 blade prop will be a little better, but both not as good as an Ovation, but certainly better than the MSE I fly now. I am most interested in better climb performance and less concerned with an extra 5 knots in cruise. I want a long body to accomodate the growing family, even if it is only an inch or two extra legroom in the rear seats. Thank you, Zeke

My partner and I are now very seriously considering upgrading to an Ovation, especially because we may have a buyer for our MSE which we weren't advertising or planning to sell until after Oshkosh. Somif this deal happens we would need to find something for OSH. Neother of us have flown in an Ovation or Eagle. There are a few of each we would like to look into, but since this may be very short on time I wanted the opinions and wisdom of the mooneyspace people. I understand a screaming eagle will perform like an Ovation. There seems to be some mixed reports if that actually makes it an Ovation. A friend said the Eagle does not have the fit and finish of an Ovation. It is like putting a Corvette engine ina Camaro, same engine! Same performance! But not the same ride. There are some rumors that the soundproofing is not as good in the Eagle. Any other differences? Does the Eagle have the overhead switches? With the STC is fuel increased to 89 gal? Is gross weight and useful load the same? Finally! My friend with the corvette analogy did say the Eagle would be the same or better than the MSE I currently fly, which I love that plane. Thanks in advance for all the help. If this deal falls through we plan to take our time and actually try and find some Eagle and Ovation owners to take us up so we can make our our decision, but if this deal happens time will be of the essence. Zeke

Thanks for the clarification on performance. That makes sence with the top end speed not increasing proportionally to take off / climb performance. I am not concerned with an extra 10 knots on the top end, would like the long body and better climb performance than the J model I fly now. Of course I do not need it, but like all pilots always want a little more. I used to fly a SR22 and fully loaded on a hot summer day i never gave the trees at the end of the runway a 2nd thought. But who would want a cirrus when you could have a Mooney I saw 808WM, and it does look real nice. Thanks for the in person feedback. We are exploring either putting some upgrade money into the J, or selling the J and for not too much more than our upgrade budget plus the J sales proceeds upgrading to a long body. The variables are at times overwhelming.....how much is our J worth, how much negotiating room is in an asking price, etc..... I was with a guy over the weekend who has a nice Bravo that he picked up for $100,000, sure it has a high time engine, but very nice. How do you find these deals? Anyway, thanks again. As usual this website has been an invaluable source of information.

Thanks for the info. I had thought that if the STC was done and the Eagle had 310hsp it would be very similiar in climb and speed? Cruiser, you seem to imply the top end speed will not change.

The Midwest Mooney website say they are out of business as of May 1, 2015. Does anyone know if there are any other companies that can do the screaming eagle STC? I have been wanting an Ovation 1, but after the information from this website I have also added the Eagle to the list. There is an Eagle that looks interesting and I believe the 244hsp would meet my needs, but I would like the option to increase the hsp if I find it less than expected. If that option no longer exist than I will have to do some due dilligence to be sure before committing to the Eagle. Thanks, Zeke

This was a great weekend of flying last year with a very knowlegable and fun group of people. Count me in! I have done the Mooney Caravan twice so far and recommend it to anyone who wants to go to Oshkosh. See you at MRB, Sled.

Thank you to everyone for the wealth of information. I am going to read this a few times to digest it all.

I am considering purchasing a garmin 796. Does anyone know if it fits nicely on the yoke without blocking the "6 pack?" I am hesitant because I am not sure it is worth the extra cost compared to the ipad I now use, but with a kneeboard on I haven't found a good place to keep the ipad. If the 796 fits nicely on the yoke in front of me that may tip the scales. I wish there was someplace to "test drive" one. Thanks for the help.

My instructor has a lot of Mooney time and is based at KMJX, in NJ, so he would only need a one way ticket to NV. His contact info is.....Steve Korotky 732-two six seven-6889.

Bob, Being from NJ also I have flown the NJ to FL route a few times. I usually stop at KCPC, which is about 30 miles north of Grand Strand in Myrtle Beach. They have some of the lowest fuel prices usually, and a crew car to get some lunch. Fly V1 just about the entire trip, and KCPC is right around the half way point to central FL. But to answer your original question, I file one leg, then when refueling use my phone and Duats mobile to file the next leg, this way I am under no time constraints when I land. Duats mobile has an autoroute function and it will email that route to you. Very easy.

I have always wanted an Ovation, but yes, a Screamin Eagle and a Rocket will also be on the list. I had the MSE years ago when Ovations were significanlty more expensive, but it is starting to get into my price range :-)

Av8...... In response to your question about what you are missing regarding and old J, MSE or O...... I agree that it does not make sense to spend an extra $100,000 to go 20-30 knots faster. As for my original question, I am deciding between a MSE or Ovation. I used to own a MSE and like the split rear seats and electric flaps. I also understand that the older models need to be inspected for rust as the stuff they used or how it was applied not not very good. I am sure many on this website can give you the details. So in my case.....it seems crazy to spend $125,000 to $150,000 on a nice MSE when there are Ovation 1s in the $150,000 to $175,000 range.......unless the additonal cost is prohibitive given a specific budget. I used to fly a Cirrus SR22, and the 300 hsp engine for climb is real nice, and the ability to fly high is always an option. I had the Cirrus up to 16,000 with no problem, the MSE is very hard to get to 10,000 in the summer unless lightly loaded. (And no way is a Cirrus an option for me, once you fly a Mooney it is hard to fly something else). So I am trying to determine what additional cost I can expect by owning an Ovation as compared to a MSE. Fuel burn, engine reserve and insurance are easy to calculate. It seems the responses in this thread indicate that the additonal maintenance is not significant, of course any plane can, and will, have that surprise annual. An old J is perhaps the best value in aviation, good speed, fuel burn, mx, insurance, etc.....

Very good information. So it seems that my original thinking that upgrading to 6 cylinders from 4 may not be a significant increase in maintenance cost. I am on the East Coast and don't need a turbo, so I will continue to look into the Ovation, and now the Screamin Eagle. Worse case for me is to buy a J model, which is not so bad at all. Thanks to everyone.

Thank you for the input, and for the welcome wishes. I am trying to compare a late J model, 1990 & newer to an Ovation 1. It seems the acquisition cost of the J is $120,000 to $150,000, and some older Ovation 1s could be had for $150,000 to $200,000. That is about the limit of my price range, so O3s are out and most of the O2s as well. As for avionics, I am looking for simple, by todays standards, which means 6 pack with 430 or more, engine monitoring, traffic etc. no need for A/C or de-ice, but I thought all OvTions had O2. $2,500 on the last two annuals for PMcClure is great information. That is what it cost for the J model, in a good year. There will always be the bad year every so often with airplane ownership. kSMooniac said the older Ovation instruments are more expensive to maintain. I assume this means specifically what is in my price range....O1 with 6 pack? The J I had was similiar, 6 pack, 430, 330, 340 with century 2000 a/p. sure there were some non scheduled items, but for the most part it wasn't often enough to be considered significant over a few year period. Anything else I am missing? Jetdriven mentioned the Moritz guages, anyone else find this a persistent problem? How much and how often are the obvious questions. The guages in the J are not very good, which is why a jpi is well worth the money. And I find the wing guages to be more reliable then the original fuel guages. I use them to confim fuel indicated on jpi. Having owned only planes with Lycoming engines I am of course partial to Lycoming (doesn't everyone fear change and the unknown). My A&P said with the Continental you will need a top OH by say 1200-1400 hours, but after that you should be able to go to say 2500 hours before you need the engine done. His opinion was the same as FlyMu and KSMooniac.....it should be similiar. And finally....Cris...the screamin eagle seemed to be the worst of both planes, but I am admittedly not up on the eagle. The eagle has the extra cylinders but not the hsp, so it seemed to cost more but not do much more. But I haven't thought of the screamin eagle upgrade. Does that Upgrade have basically the same charactersiks as an Ovation? Thanks again for all the insight.

Does anyone have any insight on what the incremental cost of ownership/maintenance for an Ovation as compared to a J model. I understand the obvious cost such as fuel burn and insurance due to higher hull value. My question is mainly about maintenance. It seems many systems are the same such as gear and should be similiar. There is an extra battery and alternator, O2 system, and maybe A/C and de-ice. Not to mention the extra 2 cylinders. I used to own a J model and have a handle on the cost to own that, but am considering upgrading to an Ovation when I get back into plane ownership again. Of course there is the Lycoming vs Continental debate, which I am trying to avoid for this thread. Any information on cost of annual and other cost would be greatly appreciated.