Rik

M20F, you have a Ray Jay Turbo on an "F"?

I fully understand not "outgrowing" the airplane and this is why I was looking at a Mooney. Everyone says to spend X years in Y plane then move up to Z plane for X years then so on and so on. Problem is not everyone is 18 yrs old and has 60 yrs to reach the level they want to be at to satisfy everyone. Flip side is a lot of people just put the work in and learn what they want/need to do in order to safely handle the situation. Have to get the PPL and then get the IFR but as many have pointed out the plane they own doesn't have to excluded from this mission for both. I don't want to be one of these people who purchases a plane before they finish the PPL as I think that what one wants going into this and what one needs once they are in it can be totally two different things and I also think it's wise to get a PPL and then see if I really like it. While I don't think I will, I just might not like it as much as I thought I would and I would be stuck with a plane and the associated cost and be sitting here thinking, what was I thinking.. So once I get my PPL, it's never a bad investment to invest in one's self, I can then say more accurately that a Mooney is for me.

Joined AOPA already. No ever explains things and assumes that everyone understands it all and I certainly don't so I ask. No plans on being a commercial pilot so that might not concern me as much as someone who's living depends upon it.

Makes sense to me, one expects that the more you pay the more you get for what you paid... Someone mentioned a Zero Time Engine. Is there a limit as to how many times an engine can be over hauled or rebuilt?

Question from the inexperienced. What can happen to you for this infraction, let's play worst case scenario and say you were in Class B and didn't know it. When someone says speak to an attorney I get afraid of wanting to learn to fly.

I don't know the elevation required to get in the Inland Empire basin. I know that SWA flies East of the mountains over the Victorvile area but that might be just to avoid LAX class B space.. They depart over them so? Where does one look to find the routes to get somewhere?

I forgot annuals. The only thing scarier than the IRS from what I've read. Would, or should a PPI reveal these things and thus pretty much point out that this plane is going to need X, Y & Z + + + and your looking at X$ to make things good. Everyone says buy the plane that has the things you need already in it. Would love to but where are those wonderful deals? Everyone is snapping them up so fast they don't broadcast them on the internet. This might be trivial but gotta ask. What's involved in the certification certificate? Is this just a tax for the states like a boat licence or is it more involved than that?

I'm trying to get a grip on what's involved with the planes. I honestly cannot afford an Ovation so that regulates me to the older planes such as a J or wishfully a 252/262 but in order to make one of those attractive on the front end they are going to be in need of: Paint, most are old, faded and downright bugly. An Earl Shive paint job is not an option as one pointed out sanding the plane anodizing will ruin it. So gotta see what an honest budget here is. Interior, some of the planes look like they were taken from the "70's Show" and could use a real update Tank seal. I've read enough to know its not a matter of "IF" just a matter of "WHEN" Engine, the reason that this one amazes me the most is that A. they are severely over priced B. everyone preaches about the operating cost based upon banking X $/hr towards a rebuild yet everyone is selling the plane prior to the rebuild rather than actually doing the rebuild yet they are still complaining about the hourly cost. Time someone was honest with themselves and just admitted that they are going to run the plane till 80% TBO and off it. Base their cost on the real world situation/plan and go from there. C. Rebuilding the engine requires much more than just rebuilding the engine, hoses, alternator, magnetos, cooling ducts, etc. A 16K quote runs in to 40K and that 40K isn't increasing the planes value by 20K so it's a real bad investment. Windshields, these take a beating in the sun and such over the years. Thankfully a few have said they cost X but installation is X to the 10th power more than the cost of the windshield themselves. Seems they were not really designed to be removed/replaced. Corrosion. The unseen problem Landing gear, numerous people have commented on these threads about the fragility of the landing gear so have to address the fact that purchasing a plane will come with some landing gear problems as well. I read mentions of electric gear, is there a hydraulic gear also? The reason I didn't put electronics into the equation is simple, I'm to naive to know what is what on a panel and I don't know what is good to have or bad to have. Some say Forflight and an Ipad replaced the panel's most vital gauges anyways???

Zane, thanks for the honesty. It's refreshing to read what one would do rather than what one would suggest others to do. What I've found in life is that everything is relative. Compared to the wife, this plane stuff is CHEAP... Anyone want to trade a wife for a plane?

Looking for an insight into the Mooney planes and what it typically cost to upgrade the planes. What are the normal Cost for the maintenance areas on the Mooney's? Engine OH, "J" Model for example and for the fun of it a "K" model Fuel Tank reseal. How much does this cost? Windshield replacement? Landing Gear rebuild Interior redo Paint redo Are there any speed Mods that are better than others?

Well I certainly cannot afford an Ovation at this point in time. A J seems like a good starting point but I need to learn a lot more about these planes before I purchase one. Time for a new thread to address those questions. Reading the article that "ChrisK" mentioned really makes a "K" look appealing but really makes a 252 sound even better but that's shopping at a store I should not be stepping into. As mentioned above by N252ND I am amazed at the fuel burn being so low. Makes the 252 sound even more attractive, just wish they were 50K less $ Kevin, you mention a $40K engine rebuild when others made it sound like it would be a lot less. Others wishful thinking or legitimate reason? I really think aircraft engines, for what they are, are far over priced and they seem to be the elephant in the room as to why flying is so expensive. The question becomes do I need a turbo in order to get over the mountains when flying into the IE Basin. KCCB would be ideal destination.

Just noticed your in San Rafael also. Small world

I think I flew 110 times in 2014 between Oakland and Ontario. OAK is a 23 mile drive but it generally takes 1 hr to 1.5 hrs in traffic after 3 pm on Friday. The wait at the airport can range between 30 minutes (my basic plan) to over 1.5 hrs. 1.25 hr flight and then commute 14 miles to office which is only 8 miles from Cable Airport and I'm only 6 miles from KDVO or even closer to a private field so I can cut a chunk off that 3-4 hr commercial ride if I do it myself and I get the flexibility of choosing, within reason, when.

Maybe I am confused... Well forget the maybe. Looking at the spec's on Trade A Plane and other for sale sites, the M20J has a cruise speed of 201 mph and this fit's my goal/desire. Everyone seems to be stating that the speeds are lower. Is this due to wind, age or ? I alway's look at each plane's cruise speed and fuel burn to gauge if they will meet my needs. I would like to be in the 80-100K range for the plane is the budget I am trying to go by. The key seems to find a plane that does not have 20-25% of the life left till TBO but a lot of people run the plane and then sell it before they have to invest $$ in it. As for hours.. I've got to do what is safe, smart and wise financially. Looking at other's here they basically got their PPL and then got an airplane they wanted. Ideally I would love a Lancair but I would love to see tomorrow even more so that plane is out. Not being naive, it will take X hours just to get a PPL (reading the horror stories it could take more hours than most had prior to getting their Mooney) Everyone says get a plane that fits your mission. V Tail Bonanza. Fuel burn is to high and rebuild's are to expensive Cessna 210. Fuel Burn is to high and rebuilds are to expensive Bellanca Viking. Fast but fabric and wooden wings. Not Cessna 182, same $ as a Mooney and not nearly as fast nor efficient Piper Cherokee. To slow, fast versions to expensive Cirrius, just cannot swing that high ($) and the fuel burn is also to much. Newer planes are just toooooooo much $$$$ for me to afford. Vans, home-built... The good/bad/ugly and there is so much of a spread between them that it's hard to judge as no two are the same. However a RV7 with a Deltahawk Diesel is a fast efficient plane. So this leads to the Mooney. Some 231's fit the budget range, although I don't know anything about one model to the next, the 252's are turbo charged and that might be far to much $ on maintenance cost due to the turbo. The Acclaim's are the prettiest of the Mooney's but far to much $$ for me. What are the things that one should look for when looking at a Mooney? Everwhere I read they mention that the tanks leak, they corrode and they are tiny inside. I'm only 5'9" so the size is less of an issue to me but fuel leaks are a serious one along with corrosion.

So how many hours did everyone have before they first flew a Mooney?

So is this a feasible idea to commute in a Mooney each week?

Back to the experimental quagmire. The Van's all seem fast but the home built as they say is only as good as the cook.

Already a member of AOPA. 140 just doesn't cut it and I'm certainly not looking for a new plane nor a 172 as it just doesn't fit the mission time wise. I don't want to do each leg in more than 2.5 hrs and that eliminates the 172. Was just reading the OH cost on the Bonanza so maybe I'm confused but they all claim 50K+ for an overhaul so knock off a bit for a 4 cylinder.

I am finishing up studying the ground portion of the PPL and I was just thinking ahead. I plan to commute, round trip once a week, from the SFO area to the ONT area. I do it now but I'm tired of SouthWest, the commute and the schedule selection. Everyone says buy a Bonanza or a Mooney. Nothing against the Bonanza but I travel solo 99% of the time so a station wagon is really hard to justify and the fuel burn is very high. Would prefer a 180 knot cruise. Not preferring a 50 yr/old plane that needs paint/interior/engine/etc though. Seems that everyone selling a plane is doing so at about 80% TBO and for some reason, call it logic, it makes ZERO sense to purchase a plane that needs a 40-50K overhaul when the sales price isn't discounted for the expense. I mean a plane with a book value of 80K and needs an engine in a few years isn't worth the engine rebuild/replace + the 80K once it's completed. Is a Mooney a good choice? Experimental's have gotten such a bad of a rap to really want to take the risk with one.

So what is the key to avoiding a $16K annual? Just having a good inspection for the pre-buy?