Cyril Gibb

Broker wants a deposit before scanning/sending logs ... I'll pass

Anyone have any insight into this M20J: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Single+Engine+Piston/1978/Mooney/M20J+201/1723739.html Current registration C-FZST formerly N6201U

I saw this topic and couldn't resist commenting. I've been in the market for a Mooney for several months now... the incredibly frustrating experience is worth another thread in itself (I commented a while ago about being called a "tire kicker" because I had the temerity to ask the seller what the asking price was.... sigh... Anyway, I had heard that you should buy the best plane you can afford, along the lines of (paraphrased) "an inexpensive plane costs about $90k and an expensive one costs about $60k"... I struggled with that concept of paying more up front, but kept getting uncomfortable with hidden costs like cam spalling and so on... It would be a bummer to pay top buck for what appeared to be close to perfect and then have to shell out another $40K. (things are a LOT more expensive in Canada) I decided that I would pay less upfront for a plane that had less than pristine maintenance but had "good bones", much as how I look at a house to purchase. I knew I would spend 30-40% of the purchase price doing ALL the things I would have done myself, but would at least know better my starting point. On Friday we start an in-depth prepurchase on an American M20J with a low time roller cam engine and quite good avionics (and damage history). Time will tell.

Heaven knows I've been around enough years to know about life's guarantees. I do think however that it's an unanswered question if doing all I've mentioned during an engine inspection is worth it. If it isn't, then I'm cool with that. I've sent an email to Mike Busch directly to see if he has an opinion... hopefully he'll respond and with his permission I'll add that info to this thread.

Further to the pre-purchase, I have a question that I haven't clearly seen answered. With an engine that hasn't been run regularly, there's a real concern about cam/lifter spalling... I get that. I also know that it's a crap shoot in a lot of cases and often the engine starts to come apart in the first 100 hours or less. For potential purchasers, it'd be educational to know if it's occaisional, often, usually or most always. The question is: has anyone that bought an infrequently flown plane and had a pre-purchase that did an oil analysis, checked the filter element to check for metal, pulled 2 jugs to visually inspect each lobe of the cam and borescoped the remaining 2 cylinders had a subsequent failure? And to balance that out, who has done all that and had no failure in the next 100 or so hours?

Any recommendations for a REALLY good, REALLY thorough pre-purchase on a M20J in the Calgary area? (not Cavalier Aviation - don't ask)

I'm aware of all the nice ones there... unfortunately, I'm not there.... I live in Canada..... .. with the relatively inexpensive avgas and aircraft, I wish my parents had immigrated to the U.S.

I sympathise with the 20% thing. Several months ago when I was trying to see which aircraft would fit my wants and desires, I was evaluating just Arrows or Mooneys. I happened to bump into (figuratively speaking) a very nice Mooney for sale while talking with one of the partners at a local airport. They were asking what I thought was way too much to even consider. Just recently, I heard they had sold for a price I would have whipped out my chequebook for. You have to wonder how many planes are sitting out there that could be sold while people like me don't bother to make an offer because it sounds like an unreasonable asking price.

As a new member here, I hope this is the appropriate forum for a mild rant. (I won't be specific to avoid any embarrassement) There aren't a lot of Mooneys for sale in Canada, so when I saw one on an Internet site it caught my attention. There were no pictures and the only Information provided was year and TTAF hours, and said to eMail for more info. I sent an email requesting log images, equipment list and asking price. The response I got had no further info, and essentially called me another tire kicker (one of many, apparently) because I asked the price. I can understand weeding out tire kickers before they waste too much time, but surely not just asking for basic information. I wish I were well-heeled enough so I would consider asking a price to be vulgar. Unfortunately, I'm financially in the ever-diminishing middle class. There.... I feel better just writing this....

O.K. finally got some time in a M20F last week... I think I'm sold on a Mooney The cabin config wasn't what I was used to in a PA28 of various incantations, but flying rather than sitting, the differences disappeared. Now the process begins... too bad the CDN $ has taken a bit of a dive

One more question that probably impacts a very small proportion of people here... Will a road bike with wheels removed get through an M20 baggage door, or can be squeezed in through the main door? There would be 2 bikes... one for me and another for "she who must be obeyed".

Thanks for the comments. I assume the Arrow handles the same (T-tail perhaps not) as the Cherokee Cruiser I used to own and the Warrior I currently rent. However, seeing is believing. I sat in an M20F for a few minutes and it did seem cramped, as has been mentioned elsewhere. I do understand that the cabin width is essentially the same as a Cherokee with the reduced cabin height giving a different perception. I really need to fly in one to get a more fair comparison. Unfortunately, when I did a search on the members, there seems to be only a few entries for Canada, with none in the Toronto area.

Anybody with a Mooney in the Toronto area willing to take a passenger for a demo flight? I'll pick up the gas.... maybe even lunch if the destination includes an eatery