m20flyer

Great writeup. Thank you.

Or GO-480s. That "G" is something I want nothing to do with. Geared engines are great when they're happy, but I don't want to overhaul one. I called on the OH cost of a GSTIO-520 a little while ago. $100K, $120k if you needed new parts. No support for the earlier variants. That's per engine, by the way.

My wife would be on board with a TwinBo with the side facing sofa and airstair! Talk about a money pit though.

I've been limited to NA planes over the last 10 years or so. My own Beech (IO-520; 285hp), a friend's 172/180hp, and another friend's NA 310. The Beech would do mountain trips, but I would only try to get up and out of the mountains in the morning. We had enough margin in cool air and reasonable winds, and it was a good enough plane for my loads back then (pre-kids) but we sold it and I'm not eager to get back into one at today's prices. The 172/180 is actually a really good plane, but it's still a 172 and you still need to be cognizant of the limitation that a 172 has, especially when you're up high. You can have a surprisingly decent useful load on a light 172 with the 180hp upgrade and GWI. Still, not a good hot/high hauler. I'd take it to Durango (OOC) because the in/out is from/to the flatlands and you can land at Farmington if you're not happy with how the flight is going. The 310 is good. But, as with most twins, when you load it up and fly in thin air, it won't fly well on one engine (T310s are different; I really like T310s). We did a trip to a ski resort in a long valley a couple summers ago. I landed at an airport at the bottom of the hill, rented a car, and drove the family up to the resort. Had we flown in, losing an engine would have required a forced landing in a high valley. Very limited escape routes and not a lot of room to return to the airport. At least going to the lower airport would have given me options to land on roads or farm fields. Prior to 2013, all of my flying was in turbo'd twins (Cessna 300/400) and turboprops doing firefighting and UPS cargo. Both of those jobs were in the mountains. The fire was exclusively a summer thing and the fright was all year around. So, maybe I just got spoiled with TSIO piston engines. Those anemic climb rates in NA singles are just less and less comfortable as I get older.

Recurring flights into the Rockies. I've done enough mountain flying to know that a turbo is something I really want for our summer trips into high DA.

I threw it out there for the feedback. My initial conclusion that a Mooney is a suboptimal choice for what I need seems to have been correct, unfortunately. I'd need a turbo Mooney with the UL on the unusually high side. Even then I'd be load restricted to essential items only. The solution here is a plane that was meant to carry people and their stuff comfortably at the expense of speed and efficiency. PA-32, Cessna 200 series, etc. Bummer.

The technique I've used across a range of piston singles and twins, up to 421s and even the smaller turboprops, is to have approach flaps in (or equivalent, depending on model) 10-25nm out depending on altitude, speed, and workload. I'll add gear at FAF. Whatever flap setting I'll use for landing is added in as needed shortly before landing. The pitch change has never really been an issue. This last setting can depend on crosswind and icing. It's worked for me in all kinds of conditions and the FAA never had an issue with it during my 135 rides. End of the day, do what you're comfortable doing.

I'm considering a J or K model. If there is anyone in the Phoenix area willing to do a show and tell, I'd appreciate it! No flying, just a hands on session. The big question is whether or not a mid-length will work as the kids get bigger.

I have the books for A-R models. They use a good bit of runway for sure. Good rates of climb though. I passed up a turbo F (all manual) a few years ago and regret it. That would have been a nice plane. Maybe a J is the way to go. A TN J would be an excellent plane! The mountain airports we use all have ~7,000' runways or better. The only exception will be Durango (00C) but that's still a 5,000' strip with a bit of a downhill slope. My hard-IFR freight days are behind me and I'm willing to wait for favorable conditions.

He could. I'm learning the Mooney market. Strikes me as steep, but I'll keep an eye on what moves. I've been watching 205/206/cherokee6 sit for a long time due to fantasy pricing schemes. Maybe the Encore is a $200k plane. Too rich for me in that case! Market isn't what it was two years ago.

What little I've read about it seems to point to an improved steel tube structure with larger diameter tubes (or maybe more structure?) near the wing attach points and beefier main gear units. I have no idea if this is true. It's just what I've gleaned from a couple articles.

I agree! I'd love one! They're few and far between though. I think there's one for sale now and the owner wants $200k. Good for him if he can get it!

O2 is not a problem. We can do that. DA at home is 5,000' on a "cool" summer day and closer to 10,500 on typical summer days at our usual mountain destinations. I'm pretty much settled on a turbo or a 285-300hp NA engine in a 205/206/Cherokee6. A 50% partnership would be ideal.

The 231s look like a good value right now. I'm getting more serious about buying and would look hard at a mid-body Mooney if the back seats are actually usable. My experience is with an F model converted to a 201 (all the speed mods) and it was a decent hauler. >1000 useful if I remember correctly. I rarely had back seaters though. Here's what I know: The -LB is more desirable, and I'd expect the -GBs to have been worked out by now. If I find one with a -GB, should that be considered a dealbreaker? The earlier models and even some of the Js have SB208 for corrosion in the roll cage on the pilot side. Are the 231s subject to this SB? If so, how common is this problem on 231s. Takeoff distances and climb rates will work for the high-DA operations I expect to see (~7,500' @ 30*C near MGTOW; cruise into the teens but rarely into the FLs). It'll cruise 160-170 at 12gph or I can loaf around in on local flights at around 6gph. XC will be about 20% of the use, virtually all to high DA airports. Local flights and currency will be about 80%. I can get insurance. I will rarely have to top the tanks for the flights that we intend to do. What I need: 1,000lb useful Four usable seats Enough baggage space for light packers Questions: How is the back seat legroom for people >6'? Are there any major gotchas for the 231 with an -LB engine? What are owners seeing as an all-in cost/hr for a 231? Finally, if there is anyone in the Phoenix area willing to go for a demo flight, I'll buy the gas!

I just put an EDM700 with FF into a Bonanza. Expect 10-12hrs of labor on an EDM700, fewer if the mechanic has done a few of them. It's not too bad. If you get the FF feature your IA will need to fab two fuel line segments to accommodate the FF transducer. This isn't a big deal, just know that you'll need to find a home for the transducer that gives enough space upstream and downstream of the transducer (mine is on top of the engine). Your questions: 1 - 10-12hrs 2 - GET THE FF! The EDM700 FF feature comes with a totalizer (I think any FF feature will include a totalizer) 3 - I got a used EDM700 with six EGT+CHT probes with the fuel transducer for < $2000. It works very well. 3a - Get four EGTs and four CHTs. 4 - You can remove and reuse the probes.