NM Mooney

Cool, thanks for the info. Here is a pretty awful pic I grabbed off the web of the discussion field. It's got one of those legends down in the R/H corner that is a gross measurement [1,000'], but it's hard to tell which portion he must have used. I see a low spot toward the west end of the field that looks like water pooling. Again, this example is just for fun and discussion re: the aircraft's capabilities. But I'm going up there with the GPS app to walk it, see if I can find the rancher who used to land there, and have some fun. I think it's a neat way to learn both the plane and how to scope out potentially viable off-field possibilities, even if only for last-resort use in the future. I do have a vivid memory of canoeing on the lake and the prevailing wind was out of the west, so right inline with the field's long axis.

Thank you for this. It isn't really a major objective of mine; just a capacity that'd be neat to have. As for another plane, there are so many things that appeal to me about the M20C, including the hand-operated landing gear. That is just so cool... I downloaded the 'Distance Tool' free app for IOS and it works great. Set on the satellite option, you just drop a pin and start walking. My daily dog walk is 896' (one end of our property to the other) x 2. I'm eager to go measure that field!

Well, that's a bummer but as you suggest I'd have to work full time to make that up. Most A&P's charge $80 per hour or so labor, which works out to $160K a year full time. Adding $5K a year for an insurance policy is a no-brainer, and one always needs deductions with an LLC anyway. So, even at half-time hours, the insurance deduction wouldn't be prohibitive. The only wrinkle would be adding each airport as a named insured. To my ex-adjuster's eye, a policy whose liability provisions encompassed the facility should do the trick--but, yeah, I've done lots of comparative negligence defense work and could anticipate the facility not wanting to be a co-defendant along with the A&P if somebody's propeller fell off. Returning to the starting point of this digression, the worst case booby prize is saving all that dough in labor to have an A&P perform or sign off on the work in restoring and maintaining my plane. I could live with that--and the $13K threshold for the cert wouldn't take a ton of time to reach.

So, in that case, a perhaps uninformed question: leaving aside the surface condition, which is unknown right now - is it generally true that one wants a longer grass strip than paved, to allow for damp grass/poor braking, an unanticipated hop that might suggest a go around, etc.? I guess I'm trying to arrive at a very conservative number to have when I measure it. BTW I will check the web but assume there are GPS-based apps that I can get which will net at least a reasonably accurate length measurement versus using one of those wheels--which on uneven ground aren't very accurate in my experience. Joel

Thanks for taking the time. To be clear: have you flown your '64 into improved grass strips with no issues? There's a young guy who flew into one in Idaho (I think), and didn't seem to have any issues with the surface or length--though it was in a box canyon, so his approach required some precision, arcing along the slope of the mountain as he lined up with the runway. But in general his lack of preparation re: his aircraft didn't leave the impression in my mind that he would've absolutely done a thorough job of sizing up the strip. So, I didn't want to presume from his experience that this is a safe bet in general with these planes. I'm thinking in particular about the rubber puck suspension and possible tendency to amplify irregularities in the surface. But I recall reading an accident write-up where a pilot of a Cherokee 140/160 with a fair amount of experience slid off an improved grass runway because: (i) a flock of birds rose up and she experienced several strikes but decided not to go around; and (ii) she didn't factor in the lack of traction on what was evidently damp grass. As for Bear Paw, this is less a focused desire to use the strip (not even sure if the guy still owns the ranch adjacent to the vacation lots in the development). I intend to walk the field mainly out of curiosity because I'm up there for wood at intervals during the winter (when there's no snow on the ground). My brother does hike across the field when up there and said it seemed very even--but then he's not a pilot and wasn't assessing it for any particular purpose. My brother doesn't know whether the rancher had it graded and then mowed it regularly for his private use, or just concluded it was safe unimproved for his plane (whatever that was - I'm guessing a Cessna from my brother's description). But at any rate he hasn't seen him landing or taking off for a few years. So, since it's only 1K higher than Albuquerque, about 6,000 ft., I think there could still be critters digging holes, etc. At minimum, it'll be a fun diversion while hauling logs back down to walk it and see what's what. Maybe if the rancher is still alive I can talk to him about his experience using it. Joel

David and Don, I'm sure you're right about those considerations. Indeed, one of my friends has long been in charge of the aviation section of the City Attorney's office here in ABQ, so I'll ask him about whether that's governed by ordinance at City facilities like Double Eagle. There are, incidentally, a few other small plane airstrips outside the City's jurisdiction and outside Bernalillo County, too (and I think numerous fields throughout NM), so it may be more restrictive at some versus others. All of that said, and assuming I'd have to pay the airport(s) a cut, all one needs for tax purposes is a paying gig and all related expenses become legit deductions. So, the fact that the trips are fun and would allow me to meet other Mooney owners doesn't impact the legitimacy of related expense deductions under the IRS code. More specifically, I need to talk to my CPA but I'm fairly sure that if I set up the LLC and business bank accounts ahead of the aircraft purchase, the plane would be a legit deduction--together with refurbishments and maintenance to keep it airworthy. I researched sham LLCs a while back (when representing a partner in a local auto dealership), and I think the law for deductions is merely that they be legitimately related to the business's activities; the government doesn't decide whether they reflect wise use of the company's funds. So: the booby prize would be that my A&P license pays for itself by allowing me to save on labor and sign off on the repairs to the aircraft as I work toward making it airworthy, and Interstate A&P LLC gives me a fun way to earn some income while taking fun trips to help folks with maintenance on their planes. Not a terrible way to spend the next few years of my life... Joel

So, as discussed in another thread, I'm looking at a '63 M20C. I know that some people (on other forums) have suggested Mooneys aren't great on unpaved airstrips, versus (for instance) a Cherokee 140/160 with telescoping struts. So, I'm wondering if people with experience on back country and off-field landing areas could weigh in. Is this another Mooney Myth or not? There's a grass field which the original owner of the ranch that became Bear Paw Lakes northeast of Cuba used to access, but my brother says it was in a high-wing aircraft (he isn't conversant so didn't know what it was). Next time I'm up there for firewood, I'll walk and measure it and check out obstructions (I think it's oriented east-west but could well be wrong: prevailing wind is directly onto one end of the strip). But it'd be great to know whether this just isn't a good idea with the older Mooney.

Yeah, really... "AirHeads" doesn't exactly inspire confidence... The guy who saved the headliner in my station wagon from the ravages of a freak-out by the wife's Weimaraner simply calls his outfit 'Extreme Mobile Detail." That's why my first stab was "Mobile A&P." You know, the more I say it aloud, the more I like Interstate A&P. Since it's the cost of a cheeseburger to buy the URL, and a Google search indicates nobody has thought of this name, I just bought it. So, "Interstate A&P" it is! I will build the website in my 'spare time' (easy-peasy with Squarespace). Now, I just need a good logo. But even a non-cutesy, buttoned-down text version wouldn't look bad on the tail, maybe enclosed in a shaded outline of the U.S.? INTERSTATE A&P www.interstateap.com

John, This is really helpful information, thank you. I will take you up on your generous offer re: the cowling mods and getting DER approval. Ten minutes vs. 45 is a big deal to me, as I'm the kind of person who enjoys being in an engine bay frequently. I agree that the obvious time to do this work is from the git-go, and in conjunction with the windshield upgrade. In fact, aside from mounting new tires so I can roll the thing around, the combo of new windows and cowling access mods might well be one of the first things I want to take on. I am eager to see why a hinged setup isn't viable, but if you can get your cowling pieces off in 10 minutes, it may not be worth the trouble of designing a replicable solution. Could you perhaps send me a PM with the cost of the DER for upgrading to the J model cowling, so I have a sense of what that route would cost me? I need to get familiar with the change to a spin-on filter setup; no way I want to be servicing a screen type if it's a straightforward change to a spin-on--and of course I haven't yet been inside the engine bay to see whether the owner has already done that mod. But indeed Hank's powerpoint on no-drip oil changes with his spin-on didn't look too terrible. I need to look closer at your albums, as I didn't see close-ups of the details of your cowling conversion at first glance. Joel

Thanks for this, Clarence.

Hank - I think you've laid out a plan for my new career--or at least a way to pay for trips and legitimately write them off as business expenses. Once I get the certificate, I'll boot up a new LLC and figure out a nifty logo for the mobile A&P business. Everyone - how about some help with a catchy name? It needs to simultaneously communicate what the biz does and the fact that it's mobile. Here is a couple of clunky first tries: "MOBILE A&P" or "INTERSTATE A&P" - logo shows a guy leaning out of a stylized Mooney's window (maybe with old school flying cap and scarf) holding a spanner Query: with full tanks and just me on board, could a decent tool kit provide a way to balance the aircraft, if distributed properly? Another query: anyone know of a good custom auto paint shop that could do the logo? Yet another opportunity to write off a flight as a legitimate business expense. Heck, come to think of it, if I start the LLC before the purchase, the aircraft itself and all of the work are legitimate write-offs...

Oh, my, I'm so sorry to hear that--but you're evidently okay, and that's the main thing. There's a limited number of these planes but only one you. Cool, thanks for the input. Yes, I was clicking on the next few newer models on the website Art Vandelay linked to with one-piece front screens and they list 'my' plane as compatible. But am I right that I'd have to add a vertical strut inside for rigidity, or is that center piece solely to hold the halves of the earlier style together...? Pardon my ignorance but I'm not yet very familiar with these planes and couldn't see a darned thing through that yellowed front screen on this bird. --Joel

Wait, so is the front different from the sides? Or is the front just newer? I see the price pops up a bit for the smoke with UV, but it's gotta be worth it.

There's a wait list, both for hangers and covered tie-down space. If this sale goes through, I need to get on the list, just didn't want to do that until I have the plane. I think it's $245 hanger, $150 covered, and $35 tie down. However, the chief mechanic was very solicitous and said he's got a good 'out of sight, out of mind' tie down in the lee of one of the buildings to the north, and said he doesn't care if I work on it, so long as I don't spill, etc. He also said if I need to pull the engine or anything, he'd let me pull it into one of the workshop bays. I'd just put the engine in the truck, drive it home to my shop and put it on a stand. Hmmm... guess I'd have to weld up a fixture to bolt in place of the missing engine to hang Olympic plates on, so I could move the plane back to the space without dragging the tail in the dirt.

I just downloaded the FAA guide for IAs, so really appreciate the heads up. This plan is starting to shape up!

Huh, I'll have to look around. Looks like the slightly later model--no center frame--is approved for the '63 M20C.

Those window prices aren't that terrible (thanks, Art). Is it a bad idea to get green plexiglass re: night flying?

Well, truth be told I've done this with autos before, at least three times. Of course, this isn't a car or truck... I have some very personal reasons for wanting to do this that I'm uncomfortable posting on the internet. But one of them I don't mind mentioning is that it's a kind of an extension of an ongoing inspiration from my father's (late) elder brother. Keith flew a PBY Catalina in WWII (Pacific Theater), in charge of the aircraft at the ripe old age of 21. His widow found the hand-typed memoirs of his time in the infamous CA Navy flight school and later in combat, and sent them to me. Those, in turn, were inspiration for the protagonist in my first novel, an ex-Vietnam POW turned FBI profiler named Robert Gaines, and who is about to retire when 9/11 happens. He is put in charge of ferreting out aiders and abetters of the highjackers in NYC shortly after the President's exec order, and there are a few flashbacks to when Gaines was shot down over Hanoi that are (loosely) informed by some of what my late uncle wrote. Pretty harrowing stuff in that memoir, actually, and some more personal reflections of his that I'd like to inform another novel hewing more closely to his experiences and that time frame. Anyway, seemed to me that, in addition to my other private reasons for wanting a new project, this would help me connect a bit with my memories of Keith. Kind of corny, I guess, but there you have it.

Thanks, man. Hey, wait, do you sell latex...?

Here are the only shots I took with my phone (should've taken more). The tires are flat, naturally, the windshield and windows all need replacing (badly yellowed), but the fuselage, tail section, and wings look very straight. Tough to see inside due to the yellowing but the seats look intact. I assume converting to a single front window isn't that bad. What's the best source for windows for these old birds?

Okay, cool, thanks. I'm eager to see you guys' respective setups. Even more eager to see if this gent is serious, and whether the old girl is worth saving.

I downloaded and viewed your presentation. Very nice. I use a little sheet metal tool on my '51 FL Pan-Shovel chopper when draining the oil tank. I guess I'm not clear whether the '63 has a spin-on filter rather than just a screen, and if that's true then perhaps then Wolf setup--if available for that early engine--both adds the spin-in and moves it remotely...? Regardless, the spin-ons take [x] torque value, which I don't know but intend to find out. I've got three different torque wrenches and think the hex on the filters is just a 1" socket--assuming there's room. If not, I use a nifty extension to do the head bolts on the Hog, and just use a simple formula to net the right torque (slightly reduced). Hey, that's really nice of you: I'll look forward to your pics. Hope I didn't put you out.

You know, it's been so long since college I didn't even think about student housing. I'm sure you're right--and the main thing is, I want the cheapest option I'm eligible for, so looks like I'm good to go.

Thanks Hammdo. Any chance you might get a moment to take some close-ups of the cowls you've got? I can't quite see the latching mechanism.

Howdy, from the bone dry, high desert. Yeah, we'll see how things pan out. He's a sly old coot (takes one to know one), so I'm not counting my chickens until I see ink on a title and bill of sale... Okay, thanks for the suggestions. There's a kid who has some Youtube videos of his misadventures flying from the East Coast to Yellowstone and parts West (his 'tool kit' was painful to see), who shows himself removing the lower cowl and it was a bit of a grind. Seemed from watching the thing come loose that I could design some CNC brackets to make the whole shootin' match pivot down, either with fulcrum at nose or rear--but hard to say until I own the thing and can sit and stare at it for a while. A two-pipe problem, as Holmes would say... I will check out your oil change thread - thank you. With 95 psi max oil pressure on these engines, it shouldn't reduce reliability to have short hoses going to a remote--though Wolf is pretty proud of that little casting. But with a tidy remote, it'd be cool to be able to remove a few dzus fasteners, pivot the lower cowl down, and bang out an oil change. Great idea on the control cables. Obviously, every hose gets replaced, too...