PilotGrant

Got insurance quotes back from AOPA. $225,00 hull ($1k deductible) + liability on a M20M is a $5,300 annual premium. $400,000 hull($10k deductible) + liability on a M20TN is $12,200, 30hrs dual and 50 landings before being sole PIC. Are these high?

Thanks, I will definitely pick up his video. Saw it mentioned a few times in previous threads and have it down in my notes. @donkaye, just going off what foreflight and bad napkin math told me. KBUR -> KLOM is 2150nm, 230 knot cruise at FL250 LOP + 50 knot tailwind is 280knot GS at ~21gph. 2150nm / 280knots = 7hrs 40mins. Need extra time for the climb/SID and IA and STAR, though. Real world is always different with ATC delays, different winds, fuel stop, etc, I just think the napkin math is cool. Foreflight tells a similar (theoretical) story, but that's based off its baked in performance profiles, and we know book numbers are never right.

Thanks for the tips on the Rockets, all. My preference is towards the long body Mooneys, but I haven't sat in one yet, so I don't want to completely take a Rocket off my list for something like that. Will definitely keep on the lookout for one and give it a look if one comes up. Also adding a pre-Ultra Acclaim to my list just in case I can make the finances work, since they really do seem like an amazing plane, albeit 2x+ what a Bravo costs. <8hrs from LA to Philadelphia with a single fuel stop and a nice tailwind is pretty crazy. I'll keep everyone posted on how I make out over the next few months!

Great info about the 10 hours, didn't realize that. Waiting until I get a plane would be the way to go, then, if it doesn't impact insurance. Asked for a quote through AOPA just to get a quick number, but will definitely keep you in mind when the time comes for a real quote (I assume you're affiliated with airspeedinsurance)

All, thanks for all the great feedback and responses. I have a request in for an insurance quote, assuming my current total hours and 10 additional hours in a Mooney with a CFI before purchasing. I'm planning on another 10-15 hrs in a Bravo once I purchase, but I'm hoping an initial 10 in make will help out with the first year's quote. I also have an email out to Henry Weber Aircraft in Lancaster PA (Right next to me), as I hear that shop is well-regarded in the Mooney space. Hoping to start building relationships before buying. @Parker_Woodruff, no plan for a twin turbine down the line. I do eventually want to get multi training, but don't see myself owning two props (Maybe two jet engines though :)) @carusoam, Looks like adding the extended tanks to a Bravo is not a huge deal. Good to know. @donkaye, thanks for the tips on the AC. Makes total sense. With ~950 lbs UL, I could fill up long range tanks, TKS, and still fit myself and a bag or two. My Fiancé doesn't like flying more than 4hrs at a time anyway, so taking 20 gallons of fuel out to fit her is no big deal. Getting below 900 lbs with an AC would mess all that up though, so that's coming off the list. Not expecting a maintenance-free airplane or one without surprises, just one that passes due diligence in a PPI lead my a knowledgeable maintenance resource, or at least one that has its price updated to reflect any findings from one. I don't mind spending the fuel to get me the speed (Assuming the engine/exhaust stay healthy), but will gladly take the fuel savings of LOP if it works out for my situation. If it doesn't, then it is what it is. Good point on the GPSS, adding that to my list @irishpilot thanks for the feedback. Taking AC off the list. Still want long range tanks but will need to make sure the UL makes sense when I'm serious about a specific plane. Looks like the tanks only weight 10 pounds, worth it to me if that's true. I've seen many opinions on the power settings over the past few days. Sounds like what really matters is keeping CHT (comfortably <400) and TIT (LOP of >100 ROP, below 1650) in check. I've settled on the fact that it probably differs by plane a little, and I'll have to actually fly one to make informed decisions. As my first potential FIKI plane, not planning on using it for anything more than climbing/descending through layers. Never planning on hanging out in icing conditions, only escape or get above them. @Danb big fan of the G1000 non-NXi in the DA40 I fly, but I'm also a big fan of WAAS. Would gladly take a G1000 Bravo if the price was right and it had WAAS, but it seems like if it hasn't been upgraded yet, you're pretty much out of luck. I dismissed the Ovation to to a lack of a turbo, but will give it a second look. Acclaims are a bit too expensive for me. Will keep an eye out. EDIT: I'd prefer a long body, so Rocket and Missile may not be the best fit. Acclaims from the 2000's really are a good bit more expensive! They must be worth it if they are 2x more, but still out of my price range.

I better pick one up quick before they're all gone! This is the only one I see out there today that deserves more than a first glance for my mission. https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/193966351/1993-mooney-m20m-bravo-piston-single-aircraft $220k but appears to have everything I'm looking for except for extended tanks. Planning on fully embracing the need for proper transition training. Finding a good Mooney CFI in my area is high on my To-Do, and getting some time in a Mooney over the next few months would be great, along with finding a long body to look at in person to know what I'm getting into.

Cool, thanks for the feedback. I wasn't sure how much variety the Bravo market usually has since I only just started looking, so that's helpful. Just sent Richard an email.

Awesome, thanks, just sent them an email to get on the list.

Hey everyone! 230hr TT instrument-rated pilot here - 140hrs in a 172, 80hrs in a DA40, the rest in a 210, PA28, and a PA22. All of the planes I have flown have been rental, club, or friend planes. I started flight training 3 years ago so that I could earn my license to take fun trips with my Fiancé & friends that would otherwise not be possible/easy with just a car. About 65% of my time has been training/currency-focused, and the other 35% has been longer fun cross-country trips. I'm based out of central Pennsylvania and have flown to Nashville TN, Charleston SC, Asheville NC, Cody WY, and a few other closer places. My trip to Cody WY to visit Yellowstone/Tetons was a ton of fun, but doing it in the NA DA40 made me not want to do that kind of long-distance flight again until I got a plane that could go much faster than 130knots and higher than 12k feet. My business is growing to the point where I will be starting to take regular trips (~1 time per month) to Durango, CO. Also, my sister recently moved to LA, and keeping away from the airlines would be a cool thing to be able to do. Based on my experience with the Cody WY trip, I do not want to fly these long cross-country trips unless I can keep the total time in the air down below ~8hrs for each leg (Clocked 12.7hrs on the Hobbs in one day on the way back from Cody, not interested in doing that again). I only want to have to make a single fuel stop on a given leg, too. I can tie in a trip to LA with a normal business trip to Durango, so the longest leg I need to account for with the <8hr and fuel stop requirements is KCXY -> KDRO, which is just shy of 1500nm. While my trips to Durango will be monthly, I do not need my dispatch rate to be 100%. If I need to wait a day or two before departing/returning, or take a stop in the middle for a day, that is not a problem. I do still have to maintain some kind of loose schedule, though, so the dispatch rate has to be relatively high. These trips will occur in the winter so FIKI TKS is essentially required in my book, but I will not be flying in the Rockies in IMC (If I do, it will be after many trips and much more experience gained). I'll want to take my Fiancé with me to Durango occasionally. I don't plan on taking an additional 2 passengers with my anywhere that takes longer than 1.5hrs to get to until I can afford a plane with spacious club seating, so as long as I can fit 2 normal adults in the back with a little luggage and fly for 2 hours, I'm good. My budget is around $200k for a plane that isn't perfect, but won't be at high risk for 10's of AMUs of deferred maintenance costs, and has FIKI and a good avionics/autopilot setup. I can go up to $250k if it has a fresh engine with a minimal required maintenance backlog and good avionics. I don't mind going way down to get an EOL engine that needs a rebuild and some maintenance. My plan is to fly this theoretical plane around 500 hrs, then upgrade to a turbine when I'm in a better financial position and have the right piloting experience to be safe doing so. So, with all this in mind, it looks like the M20M Bravo is the plane that fits the bill. The twins that can fly high enough are too expensive to buy and maintain, the SR22T is too expensive to buy, and the T210 and turbo lance don't fly fast enough. The Bonanza 36TC looks close, but to get one in good shape without expecting to pay a bunch of maintenance costs, $300k-$350k appears to be a more reasonable expectation (Also, the engine seems to be even more troublesome than the Bravo's). I've read through all the interesting topics in the Mooney Bravo Owners forum and plan to do more research over the next few months, but would like to get everyone's opinions to make sure I'm on the right track with the Bravo, in terms of its capabilities and expected price range. Learned a lot about lean and power settings on this forum, looks like running 32/2200 or 30/2400 in the high-teens will get me the speed I need but keep engine/turbo life within TBO range with the lower CHT and TIT temps. Lots of info about LOP, still need to figure out if ~200knots is achievable at those power levels at ~20LOP (Assuming the particular plane can run LOP), or if >190knots is only really available when ~100ROP. I'd be looking for one with: FIKI An autopilot that can handle precision approaches and altitude preselects Good-enough avionics (Steam gauges are fine, but need WAAS and prefer Garmin's GPS/MFDs and a newer audio controller/radio/nav setup) Pre-installed GAMI, fine wire plugs, and JPI are highly preferred Preferably long range tanks A/C would be cool, but not necessary, probably too heavy Relatively clean PPI, i.e. no major foreseeable upcoming issues that aren't reflected in the price Based on everyone's experience with the Bravo market, is it reasonable to be looking out for one like this in the $200k, max $250k price range? Thanks for all the help! Grant