Ranger_Chris61

OK I don't know if you have simply have had a series of lemons, or you mechanic is overcharging you, or what the issue is. The reality is that that the numbers you are throwing out make 0 sense. For starters the additional $40 per hour is unnecessary as it has already been accounted for in the initial $100, with out it it would have been in the $60-$70 range. As for the $60, as I said earlier that is a FIXED COST and as such is amortized over the ENTIRE YEAR not just when the plane flies and there fore add only about $.70 to the hourly cost, only difference is that $.70 would be being payed so long as I owned the plane. I could fly 100, 1000, or none at all and it would still be $.70. So your $200/hr estimate is way off the mark. As for maintenance, that is one of the reasons I started this threat was to try and get information on what are the common problem areas on Mooney so that when I do find one and get to the prebuy I can have a supplemental list of items beyond the basic ones that get covered in the prebuy for the mechanic to look into. That way I can find out before it breaks or becomes a problem and I can then go to the seller and either have them fix them prior to the sell, reduce the price to cover the cost, or walk away. This way I can reduce the chance that I will have to pay for the big ticket items and will only need to worry about general maintenance.

Not 100%, would prefer E or later, but would not rule out a C for the right price that has a good chunk of what I am looking for feature wise.

Sorry for not checking back on this in a little while was away prepping for a instrument stage check. I have been trying to keep a watch on listings for Mooneys and after seeing on sell in less than 24 hours I am thinking I need to have everything ready to go so that if I see one I can move on it quickly. I did look through the download section as dlthig suggested, had not noticed there was one until they pointed it out so thank you for that, and after playing with them using what I would consider the upper end of my budget and was running about $90-$100 depending on the calculator. Would love to know if that is in the same ball park as what other people have found their Mooneys run at.

Great video, am curious though what type of mount did you use? This is something I have wondered about with mooney because of the higher speed necessitating a stronger mount.

Except the fixed cost must be paid even if I don't fly at all, and is why they need to be calculated over a year and not just the 180 hours of flying. It would be nice to not have to pay for fixed costs by not flying but they still exist. Also screw a gulstream, for that kind of money I would rather get a mig.

Know m20Ms are out of my price range, but good to know.

530*12 = $6360 a year 6360/(365*24) = .72/hr

Its a fixed cost, so I am going to have to pay it regardless of how much I do or don't fly. Hence the 6359 a year breaking down to 72 cents a hour. Yea that looks like a bad run of luck there to get all of that to hit at the same time. So I do have to ask though in regards to deferred maintenance would not a lot if not all of this be caught on the prebuy, allowing me to either have these items fixed prior to taking delivery or getting the cost of the maintenance taken of the purchase price. Reading through that I noticed that you were able to supply some of the parts yourself, how much if any were you able to save getting the parts yourself vs. the mechanic hunting them down?

That is assuming I buy in CA. It is well within the realm of reason that I will buy out of state. Which mean I potential may be able to get around this through flyaway exemption to taxation. However I openly admit I am not versed enough in this area to say that I will be able to do this. Thank you for bring this up as it was something I had forgot to bring up in my initial questioning. While I do acknowledge sales tax is a cost, however it is not a recurring cost which is where I cam doing my per hour value comparison. There is in CA a 1% luxury tax that I will have to deal with however, and using your $100k example equates to $6/hr This is assuming I get a $100k aircraft, something which I would like to avoid. My personal comfort zone is not more than $75k, with the begrudging willingness to go higher should I find something that is worth the additional cost. Whats more this is something I will be paying regardless of how much I fly so is calculated over the course of the year so its over the course of the year, not just the 180 hours. Still using your example on a 20 year $80k loan at 5% that is $530 per month or $0.72/hr Had estimated higher on this, thinking that it would run between $2k-$3k (for calculations splitting the difference at $2.5k) giving $0.29/hr over the course of the year. This amount I am assuming you pulled off of Garmin's site. The problem with it is that it is for Garmin's newer avionics, the 650 and 750. Most of the aircraft I have looked at all have the 430, with Garmin no longer supports but Jeppesen does. Their subscription, based off a forum post from a different site was $350 (if that has changed please let me know) for the entirety of the US for the year, working out to $0.04/hr. As for XM weather if I get something that has ADS-B in that is complementary, else I will simply do without. Fair enough, one of the things I had wanted to find out about in terms of the difference between getting a hanger or a tie down so thank you for bring this up as well. I would also assume that an oil change is something that can be done owner assisted so as to save a little, any info as to the difference in cost would be appreciated. Same number I had estimated with, but since it is good for the year priced at $0.23/hr This was one of the reasons that I made this post was to try to get a better idea of what the repair cost are and what items tend to fail most often. So adding all of those costs together gets $22.28/hr of cost before gas. In my area cost of self serve usually runs between $5 and $5.50. So sticking with your $100k mooney example, if it is a 4 cylinder figure it will most likely burn about 9/hr on average, working out to $50/hr. If it is a 6 cylinder assume 12/hr on average and costing $66/hr. So for total cost we have between $73/hr and $89/hr, roughly half the cost of renting. Something is always better than nothing

I have to disagree with you on this. For right now I am looking at least another 150-180 hrs to get at least a commercial rating (30 more hours to an instrument rating + 120 for commercial + over runs). At $150/hr to rent that adds up very quickly, even more so when you consider that owning runs, based on my preliminary estimates, about $60-$100/hr (depending on type, cost of gas, fixed costs broken down to a hourly rate, etc.) In addition because of the increasing shortage of instructors makes being able to get lessons scheduled so as to get things done in a timely fashion all the more important. Lastly is the fact that by owning I get the advantage of the equity, something I won't get by renting. See above for part of my response. As for there being no such thing as the "right plane," there is. But the time and cost of designing, building, and testing something from the ground up is a little bit out of the question.

Have not been on in a few days but have read through peoples posts. I had already planed for 15%-20% no surprise there and had planed to get a PPI in all cases simple to make sure that it is in good working condition and the obvious fact could save thousands. I also agree with you on old electronics and the potential for failure, but there is not much you can do about it beyond making sure the person doing the PPI does a good job. As for upgrades my understanding from what I have seen here and else where that the only items that you will get your money back on, and could potential increase the value, is doing the interior and a fresh coat of paint. If any one has suggestions on upgrades that they have found do add value or at least don't lose value significantly I am welcome to hear suggestions. As for parking I am planning for a basic tie down as around where I live here its about $50 a month, though would like to hear peoples experience with the difference in maintenance and insurance costs with getting a hanger and if they difference is worth the added cost. As for being in a rush, the way I see it it is a bit of a catch 22, on the one hand the sooner I get my own the sooner I can save some money on my flight training but it would potential mean having to settle for something that is not ideal. On the other hand I wait for the right plane that is 100% of what I am looking for but end up spending more by continuing to rent. So it is a little frustrating trying to balance the two. Why that does sound nice I am shying away from Cs due to the the fact they are not fuel injected. Two other questions that came up in the last few days that I was wondering about. The first is what have been people's experiences been with renting out their mooneys? I was speaking with a financial planner and one of the things he mentioned was the idea of renting it out to help bring in income to offset costs and was wondering what people have found they could get. The second is in my search I have found a fair number of potentials that lack a six pack instrument arrangement and I was wondering what it typically cost to get a instrument panel redone.

re 2) I was looking at TC'd engines few a couple of reasons. The first is because of the high summer heat we get out here in socal and with the high DA, 3-4K at sea level. Hell had one instance during my PPL training of being about 2/3rds of the way down the runway at KRNM before finally getting airborne in a 172. I was also looking at it because of the high MEAs this side of the Rockies. Lastly because of where I am, in between two class Bs, having the option of getting over them so as not have to deal with them would be a plus. re 3/4) Don't see how a turbine would be something in budget but would be interested if there are some re 5) I was not aware of a difference between Turbo charged and Turbo normalized. My understanding was that they were simply two different ways of describing the same thing, IE tomato/tamato re 6) My loads are as I said most likely going to be under 75-90% 900lb+ load, mostly due to my large backside, and hence why the m20k with the 3200 gross STC is so attractive.

Been lurking these boards for a few months now before finally joining and am looking for some advice/tips/things to look out for in purchasing my first plane. I am looking at buying so as to get out of the money pit of renting for doing my IFR/Comm/CFI/etc with ultimate end goal being a ATP rating. What I am looking for is help with the entire process, as given the amount of money being involved with this I feel it would be a good idea to seek help and be overly cautions than make a mistake that could cost thousands. The areas that I feel I need the most help in are financing (sources, things that a looked at and considered, etc.) and insurance (companies that provide aircraft insurance, what items that are factored into the quote, and so one). I was also interested in recommendations of where to get the prebuy done. At current I have just shy of 100 hours total time, with 4 hours in my school's M20J to get my complex endorsement and most importantly to see if I would even like a Mooney, which I did. My primary mission would be myself (275lbs) + one instructor (150lbs) and full fuel, and is fully IFR equipped. In addition it must also have a transponder, due to being based inside of KSAN's mode C veil and just outside of KLAX's. As a secondary mission I would like to be able to carry myself + two passengers (300lbs) + baggage (50lbs) and as much fuel as possible. My equipment wish list is as follows: Sub 5000 total time on the air frame low to mid time engine Electric gear control GPS Navcom with WAAS Com 2 would ideally be digital with standby functionality, but is not a deal breaker. (second GPS Navcom would be a plus) Mode C enabled transponder (though would like one with ADS B out and prefer one with ADS B in) Would prefer a throttle quadrant (I know alot of people say the push rod style is more precise but this one is just personal preference) Would HEAVILY prefer a 3 blade prop and would love a 4 blade prop Now I have found several possibilities that I would like people's opinions on, both as legitimate aircraft to consider buying and to help give a better idea of what I am looking for. 1) http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20E&listing_id=2243635&s-type=aircraft This one is the cheapest of the ones I have found, having a good number of the things I am looking for without breaking the bank. Obviously the interior needs some TLC, in fact I think I can hear the 70's calling wanting their interior back. This I am not super concerned with as for my purposes it is something I can make do with until the time comes to sell/trade up. From the photos provided the engine does appear to be well cared for and should not be a source of potential issues. What I am concerned with this listing is that after doing some digging I found a older ad for this plane that lists 3 separate gear up incidents in its life, with the most recent occurring in 2006. My concern here is two fold, first is repeated gear ups a potential sign of something more serious and two how much this affects the purchase price and how much it will affect the resale. At current I personally would not see paying more than $25K for it. 2) http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20J+201&listing_id=2232264&s-type=aircraft Similar to the first one but a J model. This one has alot of what I am looking for however it does have a high time engine so that is a concern, That and its naked. 3) http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1454175/1982-mooney-m20k-231se What I would consider all in the max I would ever consider spending an that is with me living like an absolute pauper and pinching every possible penny. 4) http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1440983/1990-mooney-m20m-bravo Well over budget but has everything I am looking for. 5) http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1458865/2000-mooney-m20s-eagle2 What I would consider perfectly equipment and has all of the functionality I would want. No way I can afford it short of it being priced absurdly below market value ($220k+ range if vref is to be believed. So that is about where I am. Any and all comments, thoughts, opinions, and advice would be greatly appreciated.