rissacher

Looks like there were some service bulletins to add it to older Mooneys like this: http://www.mooney.com/en/sb/M20-33.pdf

Yeah, I was excited about that lead. The guy I got almost seemed angry I was asking... not sure if there's more to that story.

Nice

They are basically going to have to rebuild the whole thing from scratch. Even better, there's no guarantee that it will fit. I'm still searching for other options, but seem to be striking out. Thanks for the inputs.

So, Knisley is out. They say they didn't make the original exhaust, or "that was a previous company" whatever that means, but either way they don't have a complete system they can sell me. So on to "repair", I guess the A&P sent it to an aviation exhaust specialist due to a crack. The specialist determined the entire system needs to be replaced/rebuilt. Now my and the A&Ps hands are tied.

>$4k

I already have "repair" estimates and they are very high. I'm trying Knisley thanks.

M20E with an M-20 Turbos system installed. Likely needs the exhaust system replaced. I believe the STC holder is not longer in business, so I'm having difficulty find a system to buy. From my reading its different than the standard exhaust and the rayjay exhaust but potentially the same as the bullet exhaust. Regardless, I'm looking for any advice on options for replacing my exhaust system.

Good thought on the Jet A for flushing. The tanks have been a flushed a few times with the 100LL. Initially it was just a drain and clean, but we discovered it may take a few iterations. My A&P has a large fuel tank with a filter so we don't have to waste too much fuel. My thinking was that its probably best to completely fill the bladders to reach all the surfaces. This may do the trick, as long as something else isn't shedding metal. The fuel caps are a good thought that I haven't considered so I'm checking to see whether they are original equipment or have been replaced. The only surface in the bladder that I found that was attracted to a magnet was the fuel level sender float arm but I don't recall if I checked the cap with a magnet.

That's very interesting... I will have to check on that. The specs aren't "rusty" looking, but I'm up for replacing anything that shouldn't be there (and the gas caps are currently very difficult to open anyway). I don't believe the fuel lines have a sock on them. There's a metal screen, but what you describe sounds like some sort of fabric. Thanks for the advice.

I haven't been able to find any fuel lines that are made of a magnetically attracted substance minus some fittings, but thanks for the thought.

Found some caught in the gascolator screen, but not the servo screen. The debris is definitely bigger than the screens (found in injectors and in bladders). The only thing I could figure is that the debris is getting around the gascolator screen and maybe the servo screen is getting bypassed incorrectly. There may be additional screens that I'm not aware of as well.

So the question now is do we essentially replace the entire fuel system end-to-end (hoses, pumps, servo, spider, etc.) or can someone recommend some troubleshooting tips? On one hand I would say finding the same metal bits attracted to a magnet (i.e. not aluminum) in the injector that's in the bladders means that the source was in the bladders... but on the other, how could even one piece of debris possibly make it through 3 screens to the injector?

Yes, bladders have been opened, and scrubbed. Unfortunately, this got rid of 98% of the debris, but the remaining 2% is still noticeable. Still... Anyone have thoughts on how that crap is getting from bladder through multiple screens to the injectors?

Its not in the fuel we are fueling from. I can say this with confidence because other airplanes use the same fuel pump with no problems, and we have had the same problem fueling at other locations. It may be that at some point before we owned the airplane that someone contaminated the fuel. We have drained and cleaned the bladders, but there looks to be a little bit remaining. Maybe we need to do several iterations of draining, cleaning and refilling (which we can do through a storage tank that has a filter so we don't have to dump the fuel each time). Still, even if there was something in the tanks, how is it getting to the injectors? It has to get through at least 2 screens that I know of.

Its difficult to know whether the aircraft rolls left on its own, or whether the pc override button doesn't work. There is no noticeable difference when I push the button so it leads me to believe that the button is broke. I found a copy of the service manual and it appears that there are a few tests that my A&P can do to troubleshoot the system (leak check and gyro check) which looks like where we should start. I certainly wouldn't rule out rigging though. Is there a way to disable the system other than the button to be sure how the aircraft flies on its own without the involvement of the pc system?

Another update. Yesterday EGT was running high for cylinders 1 and 4. Pulled the injector nozzles today to see obvious debris in only those two. Blew out and captured the debris. They were black in color and attracted to a magnet so they must be ferrous (have some iron in them). Previously we thought the clog may have been rubber, gasket/sealer or lead but the magnet test should eliminate this. Unfortunately, we are still dumbfounded as to the source and how to eliminate the problem. Similar material was also found in the gas tanks and the gascolator filter, but not the servo filter. Although ferrous metal was found in the fuel bladders, how would it get all the way to a cylinder? Is it possible the servo filter is getting bypassed (like it is designed to do if it gets clogged) even though it appears clean? If the source is not the ferrous metal found in the fuel bladders, what else could be the source? That is where else is the ferrous metal or a place for it to pool (besides the servo and flow divider since those were overhauled)?

So our mooney has PC and a Brittain B6. The airplane constantly wants to roll left, even with the knob turned to the right until the stop. Pushing or pulling the PC override button does nothing (still wants to roll left). I assume there's an air leak somewhere but I'm not sure why I can't turn the system off in the meantime. Also, I assume the PC system has to be functional for the B6 to do its job?

Thanks for the good inputs. We have already overhauled the fuel servo and the flow divider. We considered replacing the hose into the flow divider since its the only remaining component after a screen but it appears in good shape plus it's Teflon and doesn't look like anything that would produce black bits. Its really looking like the debris was from the fuel tanks but I still can't comprehend how it would make it to the injectors. We have about eliminated all the debris from the tanks so time will tell if that was the problem (ie more logged hours without a clog). We have also thought about trying to get someone to analyze a piece but haven't been able to capture one yet. They are removed by blowing them out and then are never to be seen again.

I'm a new Mooney owner. We've had an M20E with the M-20 Turbo system for 6 months now and we've been plagued by the same issue (sometimes like above detected by high EGT and CHT, sometimes the cylinder going completely cold and losing power, always corrected by cleaning the offending injector, usually #2). I was hoping we were on to something when we found this post, but after looking at our system I agree with N201MKTurbo... our clogs have been in the small fuel orifice and the air hoses (reference lines?) come in after that orifice so there doesn't seem to be a way for a problem in those hoses to make it into the small orifice. Yesterday we drained the fuel and cleaned out the fuel bladders where there was quite a bit of debris similar to what we are finding in the injectors (black specs, unknown material). The bladders are fairly new and in great condition, so I'm not sure how the debris got into them unless some contaminated fuel got into the system at some point. While I'm cautiously hopeful that we may have found and corrected the root cause, I don't understand how the debris would get all the way from the fuel bladder to the injectors since the fuel passes through fine screens (much much finer than the debris we've found clogging the injectors) on its way. The only hypothesis I could see would be if very fine pieces made it through the screens and coagulated into larger pieces just before the injectors. If anyone has any other suggestions or ideas what to look out for I'm all ears. In the meantime, its difficult to fly this thing outside gliding distance to an airport.

I anticipate having to park often in an overnight tiedown with no access to electrical in the Northeast where preheat is a must. I'd love to use my Reiff system rather than buy another (like the propane powered Dragon). Anyone have experience running an electric preheater using a battery and inverter? With some quick math, my reiff oil sump heater is 200W and the low-end deep cycle marine batteries are 80 amp hours at 12V. Watt=Amp x Volts so 200/12 = 16.7Amp and 80 amp hours / 16.7 amps = 4.8 hours (assuming constantly on). Seems like that would be long enough to give a decent preheat (although overnight would be difficult). Any thoughts?

The concern is that from my understanding this was a mod made to all m20cs decades ago. Why not this one? What else may have been treated similarly? What about resale.., if it takes $7k to get this airframe up to 1960s par that should be discussed (ad we are doing) and factored in. My original post was intended to gather information for buyer and seller... Not bring everyone into our negotiation.

No I appreciate your input. Just trying to get educated on the topic of original firestone shock discs and whether they are acceptable, or if not the cost and urgency of doing the retrofit. Thanks.

1964-M20E: Are you talking about a price for just discs? Or the retrofit so currently manufactured discs can be put on? I agree its overall a nice setup. I've actually been down with my A&P to look it over and fly it. Great guys and well loved airplane. Unfortunately, the deal is falling apart over the old shock discs.

Is that for the whole airplane? The best price I found so far was: http://www.swta.net/mooneyproductinfo/mooneyserviceparts.html which is $2336 per main kit and $2113 for the nose kit so it looks like $6500 plus labor. Are there a lot of M20Cs out there with original shock discs?