helojunkie

Byron - Another great resource! Thanks for pointing it out to me.

Scott - I have already downloaded his material, plus they are allowing me to take the online course free as a primer to the live course. Now July just needs to hurry up and get here!

Scott - Thanks for the input, I am really looking forward to learning more about all of the LOP/ROP operations. There seems to be SOOOO many different opinions!

John - Thanks for the informaiton and power settings. Its good to see what the real world numbers look like so I can start to plot my performance. I am looking forward to the AP course to learn as much about my engine as I can!

Thanks Norman - I went ahead and did that but it does not change the listed fuel in the chart, just shuts off the "Hourly Fuel Burn" number at the bottom, all other fuel burns stay the same regardless if I am showing the hourly method or not it would appear.

Quote: testwest For your fltplan.com profile, I notice you are using the hourly fuel flow method. You'll get better predictions by filling out the advanced fuel burn calculation. Plan all your cruise climbs at about 1.3 time your published Vy. Find your 65% power fuel burns from the POH for all altitudes and enter those data and the descent data.

Norman - Thank you so much for the information. I used a M20M profile off of fltplan.com but I guess it was not set up correctly! I will try and work out the profile and see if will make any better sense! Scott - Thank you as well for the information - It seems like everyone likes APS and after reading some reviews of their class I have signed up for their live course on July 12, 13 and 14th. In the mean time, I will figure out the fltplan.com profile and try Norman's leaning to LOP and watch the CHT and EGT results. My plane is in the shop getting new avionics, so this will have to wait until then, but I can play with the fltplan.com stuff. Anyone with a Mooney Bravo have a profile on fltplan.com I could use other than the one that I have? Thanks Again for the great information everyone!

Understood! I will check out APS and their seminars. My Bravo does have the GAMI injectors installed so it would be interesting to see how it all pans out. Thanks again for all the info.

Thanks Parker - But the question begs to be asked: Who is Advanced Pilot and who says the engineering test pilot (Bob) is wrong and Advanced Pilot is right? How do I sift through the LOP/ROP issues and get the right information? It seems everyone has a different opinion and everyone thinks they are right! I am just looking for the "right" answer!

Ken & Seth - Thanks for the information. Just trying to get it all figured out before spending a bunch of time flying at the wrong settings!

As a totally separate (but hopefully sort of on topic) request - does anyone here that uses fltplan.com have the performance set up for an M20M? I utilized fltplan's built in performance for the Bravo, but I suspect it is wrong based on the fact that it is giving me the exact same performance cruise numbers (time & FF) for a flight at 7,500' and one for 17,500' - I am sure that has to be wrong. Thanks!

Thanks for all the great information, but as is often the case, suggestiong bring more questions: 1) So what I am getting from Skywarrior's reply is that I should use the Lean Find on the EDM 930 to do the leaning for me as opposed to "just" using the TIT correct? 2) Skywarrior - You also suggested pulling the prop back to 2200 at higher altitudes. The article I read from Bob Kromer says never to operate the Bravo below 2400 rpm as it results in "making the turbo work harder, increases internal operating temperatures and pressures and is the worse case for detonation". So I was staying far away from anything below 2400. This is the article I was pointed to when I purchased the plane: http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/cruisepower.html This is also the article that pointed me to 50 ROP. Bob is emphatic that 50 ROP is the place to be, right between best power and best economy. (30"/2400/50ROP). 3) Ken - You had said (Utilize cruise climb at 34/2400 at 140 kts IAS...usually around 23.5 to 24.0 gph with flaps in half trail....set fuel flow with TIT at 1550.) My question is that beyond takeoff I have never heard of climbing with flaps, so maybe I am misreading your comment. When you say flaps in half trail, what exactly do you mean? Also, nothing I have read advocated leaning the engine at all in climb with climb power settings - but you are saying that it is OK to lean on the climb (assuming EGT/CHTs stay within limits?). Again thanks so much to everyone for your help and information. I am learning a good deal about the Bravo from these forums!

Hello Everyone - I am new to the board here as well as a first time Mooney Bravo owner (SN 27-0047). I had zero Mooney time before purchasing the Bravo, but did a lot of reading and choose it for my "typical" mission as other modes of transportation that I own were killing me on fuel for such a short flight (KCRQ - KDVT Less than 300 NM). I looked around, found one that I liked that was priced where I wanted it and then purchased it. During the pre-buy inspection I started reading everything I could on the operation of the plane. I had already arranged for a checkout from the local Mooney folks where I was buying the plane, but I wanted a more in-depth view of cross-country operation. I picked up the plane a few weekends ago and flew it from Ft. Lauderdale, FL to Carlsbad, CA. I read a LOT about ROP & LOP operations as well as about power settings. My engine was a factory new replacement (not overhauled, or factory reman, but factory new) and it has about 750 hours on it since being replaced. I wanted to know how I should operate the machine to keep the engine as happy as I can make it. This included what altitudes to operate at, when and why. I read several articles from Bob Kromer which basically seemed to state that anyone operating their M20M LOP or at a curise power setting greater than 30"/2400 was asking for trouble and he advocated never operating above the 30"/2400 in cruise and to run 50ROP. So in planning my flight from KFXE to KCRQ, I planned my first fuel stop at AEX. I loved the fact the Bravo had the long range tanks. I plugged my flight plan into fltplan.com and came up with my first surprise. It appeared there was no real benefit to climbing high in the Bravo (aside from weather which was not an issue). For 8,500' I show 4:08 Flight with a fuel burn of 72.4 gallons and at 16,500' I showed a 4:01 Flight with a 71.7 fuel burn. Coming from flying my CJ and Meridian, I had expected much greater differences in those numbers. In keeping with Bob Kromer's (Mooney Test Pilot) suggestions and to be conservative on the operation of my new (to me) engine, I flew the entire trip 30"/2400 and 50 ROP. I averaged 180 - 185 TAS with 16GPH fuel burn. So I guess here comes the questions - First, why climb high in the bravo if there is not a large performance increase, or am I simply miscalculating the numbers (I used fltplan.com's built in performance for the Mooney M20M - see attached images)? I understand the weather issue and getting above it when necessary, but in the Meridian and the CJ, the higher I go, the faster I go and the less fuel I burn, by a HUGE amount, but when I do a time-to-climb calculation, put on my O2 and get a 7 minute savings, I don't see any good reason to be up there except in the event of weather. Second - I see guys like Bob who seem to be experts in the Mooney field make statements like "I would never operate a Bravo above 30"/2400"), etc. Same with LOP operations - he is dead set against them. My engine has GAMI injectors installed and so I presume that LOP operations could be done, but I guess I am curious about how much fuel I am going to save and what it will do to my TBO and associated top overhauls that may be required due to higher temps, etc. I know from reading the posts here that there are LOP pilots and ROP pilots. I don't want to save a few dollars in AvGas just to spend ten's of thousands on a new engine, but I have never owned a piston machine capapble of these types of operations so I am coming from a place of ignorance and before I made a decision, I would really appreciate input from those of you that have been there! My last question would be the actual leaning procedure. I have the EDM-930 and I was told to allow the aircraft to accelerate, get the power set (in my case 30"/2400), cycle the 930 over to the TIT number (as opposed to using Lean Find) and lean it until peak TIT (or 1750 whichever comes first) and then enrichen the mixture 50 degrees. THis is below FL220. Is this the correct method or is there a better method? I thought the entire LEan Find procedure on the 930 was to help with this process, but the instructor that I flew with siad to use the TIT number as opposed to using EGT numebrs that the Lean Find uses. Thanks In Advance for any input - I am looking forward to getting the best utilization out my my Bravo!

Hello Everyone - My first post here! Just purchased my first Mooney Bravo (SN 27-0047) and flew it from KFXE to KCRQ about two weeks ago. First leg was just over five hours and was KFXE-CTY-KTLH-KAEX with a fuel stop at AEX. Then KAEX-KROW with a fuel stop at ROW and then KROW-KELP-KDVT with a fuel stop at DVT and then KDVT-KCRQ. Had to spend the night in ROW I think the total was about 2100 or so miles, mostly done at 12,500' with my girlfriend. The Bravo performed amazing buring about 16GPH @ 50 ROP and 30"/2400RPM.