Quantum Blueberry

If the PA-28 is about the same size inside as a Mooney, then I should have no problems fitting inside one, unless they have that weird little handle that the passenger side has, it digs into my gut if I try to sit on the passenger side in the 140. Assuming its possible to reliably get up that high when needed, I think a non turboed Mooney would more than meet my needs, obviously a turbo is a "nice to have" feature but definitely not deal breaking given that new info. You my friend have inspired me to go down the rabbit hole of comparing the C to the E to the F to the J, probably gonna go with one of the latter three due to injectors playing better with LOP ops, but I'm yet to properly test them in the Cherokee so we'll have to see how that goes on a carburetor, could still happily end up with a C. I do think that I'll eventually get a turbo, but given what others have said its not as make or break as I thought it was. Those prices are a bit steeper than I was hoping for, but they're definitely manageable as long as I play my cards right in the long run, especially if I want to safely fly through the Rockies in IFR.

Fun story actually, what reminded me to post an update was doing research into if when the training wheels come off if I wanted to try to shoot for something like a M20C for cost, M20E for fuel injection for better LOP operations (been watching a lot of old Mike Buche webinars) or something in the Mooney family or elsewhere thats turbocharged so I can get through the mountains without any issues. Thats still pretty early on though so I don't know a ton of the pros/cons to turbochargers, mostly just that from what people have said on another topic on here that they're only about an extra 2k or so to overhaul or fix every few annuals, which while not small change isn't enough to dissuade me from looking into one. I know that theres one low time turbocharged M20C on trade-a-plane right now that has very appealing avionics and thats piqued my interest, but then again since its not injected it might have issues with running LOP which isn't optimal. I'm yet to go and test out LOP on my O-320 since weather has sucked pretty much since be brought it back home, so I'm not sure how lycoming carbureted engines like it. The decision point is a ways off, so I've got plenty of time to drool over all the cool planes I can't afford and decide which one is the one for me and do some testing with the 140. If I may ask, when you say it doesn't like to climb above 10k DA, do you mean that it *won't* climb above 10k DA, or just that it slows to about 200 fpm or something of the like? I don't mind spending some time getting up to altitude usually, obviously just shooting straight up to around 15k ft for mountain flying would be awesome, don't get me wrong, but you work with what you've got and can afford. Obviously every aircraft will be slightly different for any number of reasons, but knowing what the absolute DA max on an M20C is would help a lot, especially for PIREP vs POH numbers. (Curse you 140 POH, you LIED to me!) Main reason I'm looking at upgrading into the Mooney line instead of the piper line is just that from what I've seen Mooneys get much better bang for your buck when it comes to fuel, and a better bang for your buck when it comes to how much airplane you get. (a mid time M20C is the cost of a High time Cherokee 180 with internal issues when I was looking before biting on the 140) There's a possibility of me using it to time build up to my ATP post getting my commercial, at least in conjunction with flight instructing or something of the like to make sure that I'm getting a lot of high quality IFR time. I know that one issue people have is flying to earn money and not having much IFR time and that can make it hard to get hired on for ATP operations, at least as the local legends at my flight school and online have it. A lot of people on here have gotten better fuel burn on their M20C/E than I do in the 140, but thats likely due to me leaning wrong on the flight back because I didn't know how to do it properly yet. (specifically 6-7 gph vs my 8.7 gph in the 140)

Apologies if its taboo to make an update to something I posted this long ago, but just thought it would be interesting to give some closure to this since I'm currently in the research phase again. I ended up doing more research and after what people here said and talking to my flight instructor, I ended up getting a Cherokee 140. Flew it from RI to WA mid December, which was fun. Been delayed taking my checkride due to WA weather sucking, but I think I'm mostly ready. Annual is racking up some fees, probably going to be far above average (in the 6-8k range, if not more, but we're running out of things to have break/need repair) due to old inspections missing things or "missing things" (mags were both overdue to be overhauled by 200 and 400 hours respectively, which was within the amount of the time plane was owned by the previous owner for several years) so we're replacing one with electronic ignition and overhauling the other. Luckily I overbudgeted when it came to stuff like that by a large margin, so it shouldn't really be putting us in the red too far if at all. I do think that getting the Cherokee was the right choice when it comes to the airframe, as its very forgiving and the one we got has very solid avionics which will make flying IFR much easier. Only concern right now is the climb performance being suboptimal due to me being a larger fella. At max gross on the flight back to WA, my instructor and I topped out at around 7500 DA (maximum, that was at around 10 fpm if not less, it refused to go higher) Hoping that some of the things we're fixing and looking at during the annual will help with that. Also plan to replace the wingtips and add flap seals to hopefully help with that. Plan is to use the Cherokee up until I get my commercial, then soon after sell it and more than likely get a Mooney. Hopefully I can get the insurance for much cheaper and I'll be a more competent pilot. If I recall correctly, we were quoted at around $8000/yr insurance for a non PPL/PPL primary flier (me) with around 100 hrs at the time. I have family in Utah so not being able to easily fly through that region due to the very high terrain is unfortunate, still need to see how it does after the annual when it comes to climb. I don't remember exactly how much my insurance is on the Cherokee, but I believe its in the range of ~$2000/yr which is much more reasonable (at least compared to the alternative). When it comes to if I even fit in a Mooney, luck has it that my mechanic actually is a co-owner of an M20C and he's offered to let me take a look at it when we have time one of these days. I'm doing what I can to help him out with the annual since its cheaper to have me pass him a wrench vs having him get up and grab it, even if its not by much. I'm also learning quite a bit about how these work. TLDR: Got a Cherokee 140, not a Mooney, checkride delayed due to wx, hope to one day get a Mooney once insurance won't kill me and I'm more competent, and annual inspections are terrifying. Fly safe!

Just a slight update, I took my PPL knowledge test today and I passed with 97%, its a small step but at the very least now I just have to focus on finishing out my cross countries and stuff and getting my complex enforcement after my PPL is done. Long story short, very exited! As stated prior, I don't plan to purchase anything until after finishing out my PPL, since I know that mooneys aren't as forgiving on landings and energy management is also very important otherwise you'll float. However, given that I'll need to build 200+ hrs for my IFR and commercial ratings, and most of that price is fuel, I can fly slower and drive down the price/hr. Or if I need to get somewhere fast, then I can use the mooney speed to get there also. Based on what other people have said, as long as what I buy is IFR rated, it should hopefully serve me pretty well for that.

I'm currently window shopping on both controller and trade-a-plane, right now I have my eye on a m20c ranger that has a full 6 pack, with the heading indicator replaced by a G5 and with the newest gen of Garmin GPS units, plus a basic autopilot. Its older than the factory included 6 pack models, but it has everything needed as far as I can tell given that its listed as being IFR rated and the current owner claims to fly IFR decently often. I guess I'll just ask here since the topic has shifted slightly, but what priority should be given to paintjob/interiors vs equipped avionics? The one I'm looking at is very well equipped for the price with about 700 hrs SMOH, but the paintjob and interiors are a bit more iffy, meanwhile theres one very close in price thats also a m20c ranger that has the inverse issue of having less advanced avionics but having a very clean interior and a really nice paintjob thats only about a year or two old. It has similar engine times. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated, thanks again!

Out of curiosity do you mean a trainer in terms of PPL training, or in terms of other types of training such as IFR/Commercial. The main plan was to finish out my PPL and get my complex endorsements on 172's and 172RG's that my current flight school has. After that for my IFR and commercial get the plane, and just also build hours and do cross countries and other more complex training in it after I finish my PPL. If its not good for any training and is more of a "go places and do things" vs "know how to fly and do whatever (not sure if this is worded correctly)" only type of plane I hadn't seen that in the research I've done and would be very valuable to know. Thanks!

Got it, and I can comfortably get in and out of a 172 pretty easily, took me a little while to figure out the little tricks but at this point it takes about 2 seconds longer than getting in and out of a car, which is to say no time at all. If the internal fit is about the same +/- getting out I shouldn't have any problems, other than just learning the little tricks that you pick up over time. I plan to finish out my PPL before even considering pulling the trigger on buying anything however, especially given that from what I've seen of mooneys they require very good energy management on final approach due to having very little drag once in ground effect, and I know for a fact that I won't be there until a bit after I finish out my PPL.

Howdy! Currently working on my PPL, and I've done the math on ownership vs renting to get up to my commercial rating. Surprise surprise, its much cheaper to purchase and resell an aircraft rather than rent the whole way. That being said, from everything that I've seen on Mooneys, I'm hoping to be able to get one. I'm a bigger guy though, so I don't know if I would fit in one comfortably. Online, the width of a m20c is about the same as a 172 and I can fly that comfortably enough, but then theres also the pervasive "Mooneys are small" myth that goes around. I've read some other posts where people have said that there are people who are willing to let people sit in the cockpit to see if they fit, so I was curious how that would be arranged. Thank you!