Thunder669

After a bit more thinking and discussion I decided I just was not comfortable going any further with the deal. It may be a good plane, it may not be. But when I called and told the broker I was done with the seller the broker told me he doesn't blame me, couldn't be I put up with the sellers crap as long as I did, and said he was also done with him and would not be representing him anymore. Oh well there are a lot of good planes out there so the hunt continues

Well I have tried to take the advice of people on here as well as locally and not fall in love with a plane before I own it and always be ready to walk away. I feel I am getting a fair price on the plane but not some great deal. And yes I do want to buy a plane, probably more then someone wants to sell. I have worked very hard and sacrificed a lot to get to where I can buy a plane and am ready to see the fruits of my labor. It is not so much the delays if they were for legitimate reasons such as work and family. But they are because he doesn't want to honor agreements he has made with me and the broker. In fact the broker won't hardly get involved anymore because he is so sick of the seller. he told me that in all the aircraft he has sold he had never had a seller act like this or cause these kinds of problems and is actually shocked I have stuck it out as long as I have with this guy. Hopefully he will get his act together and get the plane up here or will tell me the deal is off at which time I will walk away and look more closely at a few others I have on a list. Either way I am ready to move forward either on this plane or another one.

Well I see the collective thoughts on here are in line and as widespread as my own. I have thought I am already this far, just put up with the guy a little longer and then never hear from him again and have my plane to its not worth the headaches he has been causing. I did email the broker who then forwarded on to the seller an ultimatum. I have yet to hear a response so we will see what happens.

It has all been agreed upon. If it is something that the shop deems an airworthiness issue then he is responsible for fixing it. Pretty much anything else is on me

I believe he is selling simply because he does not utilize it. Looking through the logs he only averages 15-20 hours a year on it. The delivery was negotiated into the price of the plane. These are only a few examples of the stuff he has tried to pull or change. The broker has said once I am done he is done, wether the deal gets done or not. The seller is forcing him to take a cut on the commission to get the the deal done and then still trying to demand more from him. The broker told me this guy is causing him more headaches then any buisness jet he has sold. We had a discussion on Friday and it was agreed that if the weather was good today he would fly the plane up and then rent a car and drive home. Well the weather is great the shop was ready to do the inspection everything was in place and he decided that he didn't want to spend the money to rent a car and I would just have to wait longer and the shop and everybody can just work around him. I am also a very busy person working 10 hours a day 6 days a week and that is one of the things that makes these constant changes so difficult. I am a man of my word and if I make an agreement with someone I am going to do everything in my power to honor that agreement. Unfortunately this guy has tried to change every agreement he has made with me, and his broker every step of the way. I am going to try and hold out a bit longer but I also know of atleast 4 other planes in a reasonable distance that would suit my mission, and I can't help but wonder if one of those sellers could use the money and be more honest then this guy

the problem with flying him home is first I would have to pay a CFII for a good 4 hours. And if it took till say 4pm to finish the inspection then we would be flying till about 8pm which would mean several hours at night in a plane neither me nor my instructor know. Just something we are not comfortable doing. And even then it was more about the way he went about it verbally agreeing to one thing then putting something else in the contract hoping I wouldn't catch it. as far as inspection results it is in there that any airworthiness issues will be at his expense.

When is enough enough???? Trying to decide when to cut my loses and start searching all over again. I have been quietly working a deal on an M20E for nearly a month now. It is a very low time bird, with low engine and prop times. It was listed by a broker at a reasonable but tad high price. So I called him up, got a ton more info including copies of the last few years log books and he agreed with me in the price and sent the seller a lower offer. After a couple days the seller came back with a counter offer higher then we expected but decided to keep trying. And after reading through the logs I saw that within the last year the tanks had been completely stripped and resealed so that made me feel better about spending a little more. After a bit of back and forth we agreed upon a price that was to include delivery. The plane is about 300 miles away. In fact the agreement was he would fly the plane up here, if it passed the ppi then he would be paid, rent a car and drive home. So to facilitate this I have already spent the money on a title search, and several other things. Have the loan all done up where with one phone call it will be closed and the money will be wired to his account. Well the first sign of trouble was when the seller who is a lawyer decided his brokers standard purchase agreement form wasn't good enough and he wanted to write his own. That was first delay. Then he kept asking for more info and even wanted my mechanics certification number. Now mind you I have him taking it to a licensed repair facility at a major airport not my buddy showing up in his pickup. The broker had not even heard of such a demand before. So after a week plus of this back and forth bs he finally emails the purchase agreement to the broker and it is not at all what we agreed to. He wrote in there that after it passed inspection that myself and another licensed pilot would fly him back home at our expense. The broker calls me up, apologizes and tells me to write back a firm email that it needs to be rewrote to the terms we had discussed so he could forward it on. He finally rewrites as we agreed and everything is finally looking good. Next he tells me he has court most of the week so Tuesday and Friday are the only days he is free so we will watch the weather. Well other then being cold the weather looks absolutely perfect so I call him up to make sure he is still coming, got it scheduled with the mechanic and my CFII to be there and he informs me he can't till atleast Friday because he can't get a ride. I ask what about the plan to rent a car and head home? He says it cost too much and he refuses to pay that so I'll have to wait till atleast Friday when he can have someone drive him. He has been so bad that even the broker he hired has said if I walk away from the deal he is done with the guy too. I sent an email off tonight saying that if it is not here by Friday for any reason other then the weather I am walking away. My girl thinks I have given him way to much slack already. So at what point do I say enough is enough, cut my loses both financially and time wise and move on to look for the next one. It looks like a solid basic bird from all the pics and the logs and would be a great plane to either start out in and move up later, or make into a project upgrading (which I know makes no financial sense but I love projects and building and customizing stuff). The plane looks good, the price is fair, the broker seems to be a stand up guy, but the seller is being a nightmare. I already have a lot of time and money invested and think it would be a great fit and feel I am extremely close to making it happen, but how much should I take before I say no more!!!!

Once I get my plane and my instrument rating me and my girl really want to start doing some of those too. Hopefully this summer

If things go good with this E model I am looking at and you still have this I might have to have my girl get me something more for a late christmas present, lol. This would be great to put in and have something in there for the next few years until I can afford a new stec or something

Well I have spent a lot of time looking for the money, now to add the other o and get my MOONEY lol.

Hope I am not driving you guys nuts with my multitude of recent posts, just excited to finally be making this life long dream come true. I now have my preapproval and financing in place and ready to be a buyer. So help me search guys. I am looking to spend around $50k. I would prefer an F model to give the kids a bit more room in the backseat but not complete against a nicely equipped E model. I am looking to get my instrument and do some real world cross country going to get my daughter so would really like an autopilot. Obviously no corrosion and bank requires no damage history. I would like atleast a mid time or less engine in it. Not as particular about the paint and interior as I can always upgrade and personalize that later. Main thing is mechanically sound and current annual and IFR and no airworthiness issues. Also a recent seal of the tanks would be nice. Thanks again for all your help and look forward to meeting many of you in person once I have my bird( hopefully at Oshkosh this year)

Well persistence has paid off. After getting all the documentation that supports what I was saying to a different bank I finally have my preapproval in place and time to start shopping for real. Now this bank is very particular that the aircraft have complete logs and zero damage history or the down payment has to jump from 15% to 30% and because of this stuff on the credit they are going to approve a slightly lower amount so I'll be looking for a nice mooney in the $50k range. Thanks for all the advice and any planes you guys know personally you can recommend

Sounds like it would definitely be a big project. The cosmetic stuff doesn't bother me as it would be kinda fun to over time due the interior and paint and give it my own personal touch and make it a one off custom. Having to worry about any possible airworthy items, including the tanks makes me very leary of it. Also from the thread above looks like the owner bought it much cheaper, put just a little into it and is trying to make some profit off of it, especially with the original asking price.

While I am still exploring my options for buying I have come across this plane. As it is lower cost it does give me more options in financing and more room to upgrade and customize later. I was wondering if anyone has personal knowledge of this aircraft or broker? Story is owner is building an RV 10 and needs to free up money for that project. http://www.global-air.com/global/n6098q.htm

I have no idea if it was a valid debt or not, how can I know or prove wether or not I was over paid 11 years later???. And nope no donations to anyone, lol. And with most any debt the statute of limitations is 6 years, but with the federal government there is none, they can come after you fifty years later and it is in you to prove that they are wrong. I even had my local congressmans office involved when it first happened and the DoD basically blew them off so I have no choice, pay it or have wages garnished and whatever else they wanted to do, and screw my credit up even more then my ex already had, lol

I have looked at a couple E's and it would leave a lot more room in budget to upgrade and customize but I still would need finance part of it although not nearly as much. I have filed disputes so hopefully it will be corrected but no telling if and when with these credit bureaus. I have called about 6-7 different ones and they all use either all 3 or trans union which is the one that I am trying to fix, if I could find one that goes by the experian one then I'd be all set. Oh well just got to keep plugging away

I guess the real slap in the face is this one "debt" is something that shouldn't even exist. I was honorably discharged from the army in 2001 and because of injuries to my lower back and both knees was later rated as a 30% disabled vet. Fast forward to 2012 and I am monitoring my credit when all of a sudden this collections account pops up from the department of defense. I get ahold of them and they claim they overpaid me while I was in. And it took them over 11 years to find out???? Then not contact me to try and pay just automatically send it to collections???? So I finally get them to take it out of collections and set up a payment plane that I have been paying religiously. Now for some reason this one is back to reporting it as a collection. So I took some of my savings today and paid it in full but if they don't change it from being a collection, even with it being paid in full, it is going to keep my credit screwed up for several years.

Well I sold the hot rod car and bought a cheap minivan and have sold all my other toys so there I would risk getting in over my head. So today after doing some investigation and many phone calls I got to the root of the problem. There are some serious errors on my trans union credit report. I have been doing monitoring of my credit score but only through experian. Lesson to me always watch all 3!!!!! So I have filed a dispute with them but it can take up to 6 weeks to get that corrected and even then depending on how they report it I might still be S.O.L. So I went over to my local credit union since I have had several loans through them and the use experian which shows the most accurate info. Unfortunately they will not finance an airplane. Told me with my score and debt ratio if I wanted an $70,000 RV or corvette or something I could have it today but no plane. So looks like for now even with $15,000 in savings and virtually no debt I am still stuck without being able to buy a plane. I even tried to see about $20000 so I could look at some of the E models, like the one mentioned earlier but no luck there either. Man I want to fly so bad but still grounded for now. Thanks again for all the support and advice, all of it is appreciated

It is all good advice and I appreciate all of it. I just bought my house a year ago so not nearly enough equity in it to be a viable option. I am talking to a couple other finance companies and getting opinions and hopefully will have better luck there and still be able to bring this bird home.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I did ask my bank but they are $1m plus, and the credit union doesn't do aircraft. Thinking about calling aopa tomorrow and explain the situation and see if they think they can help or not. If not then I may talk to the credit union about a personal loan and look to an older plane. I currently have just over $15k in the savings and I've seen some E models going for $30k. I just really wanted a long body to give the kids some leg room in the back seat

What a kick in the balls!!!!! After selling off all my toys and putting everything I had into this NAFCO didn't even call but emailed me to tell me they were going to deny because of some past credit issues from several years ago. Last 2-3 years I have had perfect credit and bought a house, but apparently that isn't enough so it looks like my dream of mooney ownership is back to just being a dream for quite a while longer

Well he definitely made it hard to not fall in love taking for my first ever mooney flight. Wow compared to the cherokee 140/160 I fly this thing is a rocket ship. We did discuss price a bit and I feel he isn't to far off on price based on condition. I will be talking with the bank more next week. Then I will be getting a prebuy done and we will see where it goes from there. Once I see what the mechanics say I'll be able to make a better informed decision

He did mention that incident when I talked to him on the phone. Said the logs said it was classified as minor damage and had been properly repaired and said there is a sign off and inspection from an FAA repair facility. It is something I will make sure is checked during a pre buy if everything else is good. Talking to him on phone sounded very forthcoming with info and I look forward to seeing the plane and meeting the owner. Thanks for the heads up on the info and keep it coming guys!!!

All good advice that I plan to use and greatly appreciate. I have looked at a few birds along the way and you are right, it is easy to fall in love with them all. This will be the first one since I have truely gotten into a position to make an offer And the first mooney. I will try to keep myself in check but I am sure it won't be easy as I have loved the looks and speed of mooneys since I can remember. I hope this works so here is the ad for the plane I am going to see tomorrow. Keep the good advice coming and most importantly HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO YOU ALL http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Single+Engine+Piston/1977/Mooney/M20J+201/1747445.html

Well I have spent the last 6+ months selling off most of my toys, paying off all of my debt (except for my house) and saving for the down payment. It looks like all of the pieces may finally be coming together. I have been doing quite a bit of research (especially trolling on here) and was recommended to rick at NAFCO for my financing. Well yesterday I filled out the app to start my preapproval and hopefully before long I will be a true mooniac and not just a wannabe. My price range I have been searching is about $50-$60k so most of my efforts have been looking for a nicely equipped F model. However for a real nice plane I may be able to stretch the budget to $70k and still be able to put plenty of avgas in the tanks every month. Well what do I happen to find in my searches not 40 miles from home and about 5 miles from my work but a nice looking J model. The panel appears a bit dated, but it does have an stec30 autopilot and everything is said to be in good working order. I am going to actually put hands and eyes on it Friday morning so here's hoping that this is the right plane at the right time and soon I will be a true member of this board!!!