Actual yearly costs for M20J?

[M016576]

My operating costs for my M20F model are < $100/hr including hangar, GPS subscriptions, insurance, et cetera. I'd recommend calling Falcon insurance. My first year insurance with only 10 hours of retract time and an instrument rating was only around $1800.

I second that- my insurance on my J dropped from $1450 to $1200 when I switched from AOPA to Falcon.

[jetdriven]

Certain costs are hard to predict, component failure and other unscheduled maintenance, E.g.

Other costs are easy to list:

 

Fixed annual costs: (My E, insured for $100,000 hull, hangered @ MRN)

Annual inspection                        $900.

Hanger                                      $3000.

Insurance                                  $1230.

Garmin/Jepp/XM/other                $1500.

Total annual (minimum?)             $6630.

ELT battery, IFR cert, etc                  ?

 

Hourly: mostly fuel @ 10g/h       $55-$65 per hour

Oil, filter, misc supplies            < $5 /hr.

 

 

Not included, depreciation, engine pro rata

 

But the right way to think about it, IMNSHO, is not to calculate a total hourly cost. The $6 grand is the price of admission. The operating cost is less than $70. Make your fly/drive/fly commercial/stay home decisions using that number.  

 

Our numbers have been more like:

Annual: 2200$

Tiedown (2350), (hangar is 5 grand a year in Houston)

Insurance: 1800$

unplanned maintenance: 3-5K a year. Anyone who doesnt do this will have a ton of items to address on prebuy

every ten years, 20 grand for new paint/interior/radios.

 

wear items, engine, accessories, airframe devaluation, tires, brakes, oil, avionics, etc: 32$/hr

fuel 9 GPH: 50$

 

so,  12 grand a year if its paid off, more with a loan. Then ~90$/hr. If you try to save money by not flying at least 50 hours per year, then add another 2-3 grand to unplanned maintenance.

 

Or a third way,  ~18-25K a year.  We bought ours and 15 months later swallowed a $35,500 engine replacement bill.  Be ready for this.

[bd32322]

My first two year annual costs ran an average of 4k and thats with a squeaky clean airframe and engine. Previous owner had don maxwell do the annuals, so they were pretty thorough.

This year I am going through a 32k - 35k annual because of an engine overhaul at 1900 SMOH. Although this sounds like a lot, I had planned for it when buying the plane, knowing I'll have a fresh engine and accessories soon.

So my annual costs from now on should be in the 2-3k range I hope. In general tailor your purchase to the kind of financial outlay you can make. I knew I wanted the plane now and in 3 years I could save enough for an engine, assuming it ran till TBO.

In general, I would agree with other members that 15k with your tie-down cost and 100 hours is a good estimate. I would also say that you need to fly more than 50 hours a year. More than the number of hours, its the frequency that matters. General advice says at least once a week, I try for at least twice a week and some long trips here and there.

Also make sure you buy the right kind of aircraft for your mission. If you are only going to be flying 50 hours and dont want to rent, maybe you want a fun aerobatic aircraft, or a classic .. And for the rare long trips, get into a flying club or rent a moderately fast machine like an arrow or something .. not as fast as the mooney but it will get the job done.

[NotarPilot]

I know this topic comes up a lot for prospective buyers so I thought I would use my experience to help prospective owners of M20Js determine what their operating costs would be.  I find the M20J has been a reasonably affordable aircraft to own. I keep very thorough records on just about every penny that goes into my plane so what I've done here is I've removed costs that are considered upgrades and improvements and only involved costs that included maintenance items, insurance, oil changes, oil usage, engine and prop overhaul reserve and fuel.  I'll also break down the usage and costs per year and an average cost over the 4 years I've had my plane.  

For anyone considering airplane ownership keep in mind the more hours you fly the cheaper each hour gets.  Hours used are all based on TACH time and not Hobbs time so keep that in mind.  When I used to rent airplanes I hated to think I was paying the same waiting to take off that I was to fly.  I did not include the payment of the plane or the cost of hangaring in these figures since I do not consider these as "operating costs" and they vary from person to person and place to place.  Data subscriptions are not included either.

Plane: 1978 M20J with 2 bladed prop with IO-360-A1B6D

Flying experience when purchased (Presented for insurance purposes): Approx 2700 hours (Mostly helicopter) about 57 hours fixed wing time including 4.3 hours complex time.  Ratings held: Private SEL fixed wing; Comm Heli w/ instrument rating.  Oddly, when getting an insurance quote they only asked for total hours and I don't think they differentiated between rotorcraft and fixed wing.  I think my instrument rating in the helicopter helped.

2012 Expenses

Maintenance summary: Annual inspection; complied with AD 2012-05-09; purchased new Concorde battery, 3 new tires and tubes; dynamic prop balancing.

Hours flown 81.18

Maintenance expenses                                      $3,523 / 81.18 = $43.40 hr

Insurance                                                           $1,339 / 81.18 = $16.49 hr

Oil changes (Includes cost of Camguard          $226.36 / 81.18 = $2.79 hr

added during oil change. Oil change conducted once every 3 months or 35 hours of tach time, whichever comes first)

Oil usage per hour (8 hrs/1 qt @ $6.50 per qt)                             $0.81 hr

Engine overhaul 2,000 hr TBO (Corona Aircraft                           $12.00 hr

Engines cost $23,995) however I plan to fly past TBO and determine overhaul time based on condition.

Propeller overhaul (Santa Monica Propeller $2,800) based on    $2.80 hr

overhauling prop in 12 years which should equal about 1,000 hours. OEM recommends overhaul at 2,000 or 6 years whichever occurs first. I went 18 years and almost 1,500 hours since new before overhauling the prop without issue. I finally decided to OH out of an abundance of caution.

Fuel (Average 2012 fuel $5.81/gal) at 10 GPH                             $58.10

Total                                                                                             $136.39

2013 Expenses

Maintenance summary: Annual inspection; new brake pads, spark plugs, air filter; repaired stall switch; IFR recertification; repaired and replaced landing gear motor; replaced alternator with new Plane Power alternator and new voltage regulator; removed and overhauled MP and tach gauges.

Hours flown 82.62

Maintenance expenses                                   $3,411.64 / 82.62 = $41.29 hr

Insurance                                                                $983 / 82.62 = $11.90 hr

Oil changes (Includes cost of Camguard           $226.36 / 82.62 = $2.74 hr

added during oil change. Oil change conducted once every 3 months or 35 hours of tach time, whichever comes first)

Oil usage per hour (8 hrs/1 qt @ $6.50 per qt)                               $0.81 hr

Engine overhaul 2,000 hr TBO ($23,995 overhaul cost)                 $12.00 hr

Propeller overhaul based on 1,000 hours ($2,800 overhaul cost)  $2.80 hr

overhauling prop in 12 years which should equal about 1,000 hours. OEM recommends overhaul at 2,000 or 6 years whichever occurs first. I went 18 years and almost 1,500 hours since new before overhauling the prop without issue. I finally decided to OH out of an abundance of caution.

Fuel (Average 2013 fuel $5.50/gal) at 10 GPH                               $55.00

Total                                                                                               $126.54

 

2014 Expenses

Maintenance summary: Annual inspection and replaced ELT battery

Hours flown 66.35

Maintenance expenses                                      $853.60 / 66.35 = $12.87 hr

Insurance                                                                $980 / 66.35 = $14.77 hr

Oil changes (Includes cost of Camguard           $226.36 / 66.35 = $3.41 hr

added during oil change. Oil change conducted once every 3 months or 35 hours of tach time, whichever comes first)

Oil usage per hour (8 hrs/1 qt @ $6.50 per qt)                               $0.81 hr

Engine overhaul 2,000 hr TBO ($23,995 overhaul cost)                 $12.00 hr

Propeller overhaul based on 1,000 hours ($2,800 overhaul cost)  $2.80 hr

Fuel (Average 2014 fuel $5.02/gal) at 10 GPH                               $50.20

Total                                                                                               $98.66

 

2015 Expenses

Maintenance summary: Annual inspection; replaced VSI with new unit, IFR recertification; Garmin GDL-69A and GMA 340 repair; new Concorde battery; replaced old landing gear blisters; removed dual magneto and had 500 hour inspection performed.

Hours flown 73.2

Maintenance expenses                                     $3,411.64 / 73.2 = $41.29 hr

Insurance                                                                  $983 / 73.2 = $11.90 hr

Oil changes (Includes cost of Camguard             $226.36 / 73.2 = $2.74 hr

added during oil change. Oil change conducted once every 3 months or 35 hours of tach time, whichever comes first)

Oil usage per hour (8 hrs/1 qt @ $6.50 per qt)                               $0.81 hr

Engine overhaul 2,000 hr TBO ($23,995 overhaul cost)                 $12.00 hr

Propeller overhaul based on 1,000 hours ($2,800 overhaul cost)  $2.80 hr

Fuel (Average 2015 fuel $4.34/gal) at 10 GPH                               $43.40

Total                                                                                               $114.94

Average hourly operating cost over 4 years                              $119.13

[Yetti]

Fix it, Fly it, repeat.

I would suggest having $10AMU in reserve to fix things on top of the purchase price.

If you pay 226.00 for an oil change  you will need more per year.  Mine cost $50.00 and two hours of time

[Marauder]

I would recommend $30 per hour reserve for avionic (IFR certs, subscriptions and future upgrades). I just didn't rob my kid's college fund to pay for my glass panel. I kept a building reserve for 22 years to get there.

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[NotarPilot]

15 hours ago, Yetti said:

Fix it, Fly it, repeat.

I would suggest having $10AMU in reserve to fix things on top of the purchase price.

If you pay 226.00 for an oil change  you will need more per year.  Mine cost $50.00 and two hours of time

Yetti, that's the cost for three oil changes conducted every 4 months. I know I wrote every 3 months but that's was a typo that I'll edit out. That cost includes 7 quarts of oil at $6.50 a quart (but I usually only put 6.5), the oil filter ($20) and about $10 in Camguard per oil change. 

Maurader, I think having an avionics reserve is a great idea but I personally wouldn't figure that into my operating costs. Sure, one could make an easy argument that avionics will eventually break and need to be replaced. But subscriptions are more optional, depending on your flying, and if you're particularly savvy you can even use a free app like fltplan go to conduct IFR flights complete with geo referenced approach charts.   But yeah, if someone wants to include those figures it's not hard to break it down hourly and add it to the hourly cost.

[Yetti]

Then I update mine.  $5.75/qt * 6 + 18.75 filter * 3/year or $159.75      Of course Mrs. Yetti (used to work in HR) said if you charge for your time you would have to add $600 to the total.  But I get the discount factor of getting to work on the plane and not sit behind a keyboard and that brings it down back to $0 for time.

[Marauder]

The argument over the avionics reserve is that the capital piece should be part of the value of the airplane. Unfortunately, it seems current avionics will only help you sell the plane, not necessarily increase the value. But there are some real costs that I plan for that are required. Every two years I need an IFR cert. That runs around $500 per cert since I have 3 altimeters in the plane. If I fly 200 hours in those two years, it adds another $2.50 per hour of flying. My avionics subs are $1,200 per year. If I fly 100 hours in that year, it is another $12/hr. There are things you can do without, but if I use them, I count them. I can't tell you the number of new owners, owning on a tight budget and getting surprised by the real cost to fly

I look at my flying as a fully loaded cost. Everything it cost me to fly divided by the number of hours flown. My rationale is simple, would I pay for an avionics subscription if I didn't fly? Or pay for IFR cert? The harder part are the reserves. Some people don't keep them figuring that they will sell the plane at some point before they are needed.

At the end of the day, depending on fuel prices, my operating costs will range between $160 and $200 per hour per year. And that is full money out of the wallet cost and the stuffing of the piggy bank.

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[Yetti]

So by keeping my 170B that seem to work just fine except for having the pull the face plates and realign the knobs when they skip a tooth, Takes about 20 minutes.  I am saving $25 an hour in flying costs.  Yipee 

[Marauder]

So by keeping my 170B that seem to work just fine except for having the pull the face plates and realign the knobs when they skip a tooth, Takes about 20 minutes.  I am saving $25 an hour in flying costs.  Yipee 

That's the game. Keep the old stuff working if you can. Good example happened to me last year. I had a 20 year old Narco Mark 12D+ start giving me troubles. Two attempts and one bench test confirmed the problem. Into it for $700, only to start having issues again a couple months later. Replaced the radio with a new Garmin 255B.

If I were set on keeping the Narco, I would have been into it for another $200 or $300. If I flew just 100 hours, it would have been another $10 per hour operating cost. Instead, I dipped into the building reserve (last time used for an upgrade was 2012) and upgraded. It's in the plane, but will it increase my resale value or potential? That is the $6000 question, isn't it?

I have thrown money at problems over the years. At some point it does not make economical sense to do so. At the end of the day, I spent $700 on a now defunct company's product and still had to buy something to replace it.

But if you were in the plane with me on that day when I was solid IMC and my $10k GTN had an open squelch with lots of static making it impossible to hear ATC and my Narco was not receiving anything (and with no indication it wasn't), it wasn't a tough decision for me.

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[PTK]

30 minutes ago, Yetti said:

So by keeping my 170B that seem to work just fine except for having the pull the face plates and realign the knobs when they skip a tooth, Takes about 20 minutes.  I am saving $25 an hour in flying costs.  Yipee 

Avionics can be categorized accordingly in the "need" vs "want" columns, imo. 

Does one "need" a cutting cutting edge 20K gps nav comm? Arguably the way things are evolving the answer is yes. There are almost three times as many WAAS approaches as there are ILS. 

Does one "need" an Aspen or G500? Arguably the answer may be no depending on the kind and condition of equipment it replaces. To take out a perfectly functioning KCS55A, for example, is a "want" and not a "need."

This is just one example to serve as an illustration. Obviously there are variables and it's not so clear cut and can be argued either way. But invariably the "wants" tend to run up the costs much more than the "needs!"

[dlthig]

38 minutes ago, Marauder said:

That's the game. Keep the old stuff working if you can. Good example happened to me last year. I had a 20 year old Narco Mark 12D+ start giving me troubles. Two attempts and one bench test confirmed the problem. Into it for $700, only to start having issues again a couple months later. Replaced the radio with a new Garmin 255B.

If I were set on keeping the Narco, I would have been into it for another $200 or $300. If I flew just 100 hours, it would have been another $10 per hour operating cost. Instead, I dipped into the building reserve (last time used for an upgrade was 2012) and upgraded. It's in the plane, but will it increase my resale value or potential? That is the $6000 question, isn't it?

I have thrown money at problems over the years. At some point it does not make economical sense to do so. At the end of the day, I spent $700 on a now defunct company's product and still had to buy something to replace it.

But if you were in the plane with me on that day when I was solid IMC and my $10k GTN had an open squelch with lots of static making it impossible to hear ATC and my Narco was not receiving anything (and with no indication it wasn't), it wasn't a tough decision for me.

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Many years ago when I had a Cherokee 180, I had similar problems with my Nav/Coms. That's when I bought a hand held Nav/Com. I don't know the Lear pilot who worked my relay that day but I appreciated it. I'm happy to relay crossing 30W when all of the HFs are ganked up from a sunspot, still paying it forward.

[Marauder]

38 minutes ago, Marauder said: That's the game. Keep the old stuff working if you can. Good example happened to me last year. I had a 20 year old Narco Mark 12D+ start giving me troubles. Two attempts and one bench test confirmed the problem. Into it for $700, only to start having issues again a couple months later. Replaced the radio with a new Garmin 255B.

If I were set on keeping the Narco, I would have been into it for another $200 or $300. If I flew just 100 hours, it would have been another $10 per hour operating cost. Instead, I dipped into the building reserve (last time used for an upgrade was 2012) and upgraded. It's in the plane, but will it increase my resale value or potential? That is the $6000 question, isn't it?

I have thrown money at problems over the years. At some point it does not make economical sense to do so. At the end of the day, I spent $700 on a now defunct company's product and still had to buy something to replace it.

But if you were in the plane with me on that day when I was solid IMC and my $10k GTN had an open squelch with lots of static making it impossible to hear ATC and my Narco was not receiving anything (and with no indication it wasn't), it wasn't a tough decision for me.

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Many years ago when I had a Cherokee 180, I had similar problems with my Nav/Coms. That's when I bought a hand held Nav/Com. I don't know the Lear pilot who worked my relay that day but I appreciated it. I'm happy to relay crossing 30W when all of the HFs are ganked up from a sunspot, still paying it forward.

I was close to pulling out the Vertex. Fortunately, there were some frequencies that came through cleanly. Found out later the problem was related to a newly installed JPI 900's remote annunciator lead. Ferrite filter fixed it.

I have an old BK KI-99 antenna connector that inserts into the external antenna from one of the Coms in the plane but when the KI-99 died, I never checked to see if I could connect the Vertex up to it.

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[joepilot]

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 at 5:12 PM, gregwatts said:

If you can afford it........buy an airplane! I still think it's cheaper than a wife!

Yup.

$40,000 first yr of ownership for me.  A well kept, clean '94 J & 110hrs of flying. But, new prop, alt, volt reg, mag OH and ADSB install. Fuel about 10% of expenses this yr.

Expenses should decrease, but it is an airplane! $2000/mo or $24,000/yr is probablly bottom of the budget for any single.

It's fun though!

[mikefox]

I think NOTARPilot is about right.  We bank about $65/hour for maintenance, oil, engine overhaul, etc.  In addition we figure $2000/year for the annual, base inspection fee.  Add in your hangar, taxes, insurance and you are in about the right place, before fuel expense.

I agree with others that you will spend extra on maintenance and discretionary items in the first 2 years until you get the plane up to your liking!

-Mike

[Cyril Gibb]

33 minutes ago, joepilot said:

Yup.

$40,000 first yr of ownership for me.  A well kept, clean '94 J & 110hrs of flying. But, new prop, alt, volt reg, mag OH and ADSB install. Fuel about 10% of expenses this yr.

Expenses should decrease, but it is an airplane! $2000/mo or $24,000/yr is probablly bottom of the budget for any single.

It's fun though!

I've been a bit incredulous about the low hourly and annual costs of aircraft ownership in some of the posts.  Based on less than 2 years of M20F ownership, the $24k total per year out of pocket is closer to my experience.  I was expecting high annuals for a couple of years (just finished the second annual).  I wasn't expecting the slaved HSI failure, followed closely with the Century 2000 back to the factory and then the non-WAAS GNS430 going up in smoke (literally.... at night... far away from an airport   Very exciting ).  It meant an unexpected mandatory upgrade to WAAS.  $$$$ more

I am particular about maintenance, and enjoy making Gladys a bit better when I can, so it's partly my doing.

But yes.. It is lots of fun.

[Bob - S50]

We have a '78 J.  We charge ourselves $250/month each ($1000 total) so that $12000/year to cover fixed costs.  Our major fixed costs are:

Open T hangar about $2800/year.

Insurance about $1500/year.

Annual about $2000/year although one of them was $3300.

GTN650 database about $550/year.

We also charge $25/hour dry for future PLANNED maintenance (engine, prop, oil, magneto, tires, etc.)

At that rate we have managed to build up about $10,000 in our account for UNPLANNED expenses (avionics repair, ADS-B equipment, paint, etc).  We also have about $3500 in the planned mx kitty toward our eventual engine overhaul.

Just one more data point for you.

Bob