Actual yearly costs for M20J?

[ucladave]

I'm looking into ownership for the first time and have my eyes on a Mooney 20J. Ideally I'd like to form a partnership for it, but I'd like to piece together some numbers so I can see if it makes sense for me.

 

I've already priced out insurance at $2500 a year, and my local tie down at $90 a month. I'd like to hear about the annual inspections and other maintenance costs so I get an idea of the true cost of ownership.

 

Thanks much!

[Seth]

Depending on your costs, and $90 per month for a tie down is less than what I pay for a hanger, so budget all in, fuel, oil, annual, maintenance, storage, subscriptions, charts, everything . . . $15,000 to $25,000 per year depending on your hours for the year. 

 

My Missile burns more fuel but flies faster so my hours will be less (on cross countries) but fuel burn will be more.  

 

-Seth

[Cruiser]

Consider $120 to $150 per hour if you fly 80 to 100+ hours a year.

[N601RX]

IF at all possible I would look for a way to keep it in a hanger.  Much of that cost can be offset with reduced mx cost, cheaper insurance, less aging and also gives you the ability to find an independent A&P who is willing to come to your hanger and work.  That has the potential for a huge savings.  The insurance number you have seems high, unless you have low time in which case it will come down considerably after the 1st year.  One of the biggest factors in cost seems to be the part of the country you live in. I'm in a rural area and pay $65 month for an enclosed hanger, But have heard that hangers in some large places go for as much as $600 per month.

[orionflt]

do you want the actual true cost, or just what everyone estimates...I think if we ever figured out the true costs to own mot people wouldn't. I own more becuase the benefits of having an airplane at my disposal, I hate having to rent a plane to take a trip.

[Seth]

do you want the actual true cost, or just what everyone estimates...I think if we ever figured out the true costs to own mot people wouldn't. I own more becuase the benefits of having an airplane at my disposal, I hate having to rent a plane to take a trip.

+1

[Jeff_S]

Here's my actual experience with an M20J.  It's impossible to say how much for sure you will spend because it will depend on many different variables, but at least you have a framework. Oh, and others have said, I never really look at the total number because it's not why I own a plane. But it's good to have a general sense of what the number is before you get started, just so you don't jump in over your head.

 

Insurance: $1500/year

Hangar: $375/month

Annual: $2500

General maintenance (including extra things during annual): $1000-$3000 year most years

Gas Costs: Budget 10 gph for overall LOP operations, I actually beat that but 10 gph makes the math easy. Figure gas anywhere from $5-$6.50/gal depending on where you are.

 

Note that I don't bother to put aside money for the biggies like engine overhaul, etc. That would totally take the fun out of flying! I just figure I'll spend that when I need to.

[chrisk]

Here's my actual experience with an M20J.  It's impossible to say how much for sure you will spend because it will depend on many different variables, but at least you have a framework. Oh, and others have said, I never really look at the total number because it's not why I own a plane. But it's good to have a general sense of what the number is before you get started, just so you don't jump in over your head.

 

Insurance: $1500/year

Hangar: $375/month

Annual: $2500

General maintenance (including extra things during annual): $1000-$3000 year most years

Gas Costs: Budget 10 gph for overall LOP operations, I actually beat that but 10 gph makes the math easy. Figure gas anywhere from $5-$6.50/gal depending on where you are.

 

Note that I don't bother to put aside money for the biggies like engine overhaul, etc. That would totally take the fun out of flying! I just figure I'll spend that when I need to.

Nearly identical to my budget for my M20K 231.  The difference is I use 12 gal/hr.  

[wishboneash]

After a point, I stopped tracking things too closely! Jeff_S said it best.

[aviatoreb]

do you want the actual true cost, or just what everyone estimates...I think if we ever figured out the true costs to own mot people wouldn't. I own more becuase the benefits of having an airplane at my disposal, I hate having to rent a plane to take a trip.

 

I own also in large part because I just love having my very own shiny airplane.  I love fiddling with it in the hangar sometimes on the weekend hanging out at the airport even if I don't have occasion to fly.  Yesterday I did some practice procedures and then I spent 2 hrs flat on my back on my roller board cleaning the under belly of my airplane nice and shiny....I don't clean the underside nearly as much as I should.  I spritz a bit of the cleaner fluid in my eye only once - ouch!  And the guys right across from my hangar who operate the medical lift helicopter sauntered by in their flight suits to leer at me and chat with me while I was doing it.  That's just good fun on a beautiful sunday afternoon. If fondling the underbelly of your airplane sounds like fun to you - then definitely buy instead of rent.  Otherwise renting is probably the wiser choice.

[aaronk25]

I think if you're looking at buying a aircraft that is older than 15 years and especially 30 years, ya better be in a position to be able to spend upto 15K in maintenance your first year.  You most likely will get by on 10K or less but typically most aircraft for sale have been not getting as much use as they should and that seems to create issues in itself.  

 

What if the following fails:

alternator $700

starter $800

cylinder(s) $1500-5K

Cam 8K

other airworthiness items?  

 

Not trying to talk you out of it, aircraft ownership is very rewarding, you just have to smile though if something big goes bad and say, "well I knew it could happen going into this".  I had more $$$ out of pocket the first year than I thought I would, but they don't typically all go bad at the same time, its spread out over every few months or so or longer durations.....typically.

 

Enjoy......that said I will own a aircraft for the rest of my life. I love it. 

 

Aaron

[Jeev]

A lot of these posts are right on.  Minus a fuel tank reseal about $4000 per side or an engine O/H $30k + or - I would say I have spent around $20k a year flying my 78 J  around 150-200 hrs but I am anal and fix things before they break and don't defer anything to annual. I also buy things I dont "really" need like cool LED lights, shiny paint and Goodyear Flight Custom III tires when I could get by with cheeper.  I only listed the big ticket items to make sure you accept that these things can get very expensive and if you do not have the disposable income to feed your beautiful J she will become not so much fun to own.  However if you have the money take it from me owning my J has been amazing and even though its been over three years I still open the hangar door and cant believe its mine :-)  I hope it works out for you.

[bnicolette]

do you want the actual true cost, or just what everyone estimates...I think if we ever figured out the true costs to own mot people wouldn't. I own more becuase the benefits of having an airplane at my disposal, I hate having to rent a plane to take a trip.

Exactly. In addition my hangar is my clubhouse and i spend quite a bit of time there tinkering around and spending time with the other aviation addicts. The wife and kids also spend time at the hangar with me bicycling, rollerblading and barbecuing through the summer months.

[PTK]

You can count dollars about how much this or that costs but to what end? At the end of the day some things just can't be measured in dollars.

And it is those intangibles that give meaning to life. Like kids, wife, family, cars, motorcycles and the Mooney!

Having the keys to your own Mooney in the hangar at your disposal...priceless.

I stop by the hangar at least twice a week. Sometimes I just do nothing but just check out my Mooney.

Mooney therapy!

[ucladave]

I am in the Los Angeles area so a hangar is not only extremely expensive, but there are also waiting lists. That's why I looked at the tie down option.

 

I've already gotten a quote for the insurance and tie down, the annual inspection is the thing that I don't know what to expect with. I was hoping to get an idea on average yearly costs for maintenance so I could better calculate my options. I know the fuel burn is around 10 GPH so that's easy to calculate into things.

 

If the annual runs around $2500 that would put my yearly fixed costs around $6000, but if they tend to be significantly higher than that I'd love to know. I am thinking that my best option is likely a partnership as I will be flying less than 50 hours a year. At that number of hours I'll be getting my hourly rate killed by the fixed costs.

[fantom]

Flying in the the SE, hangered, one million smooth insurance, 50%+ LOP so less fuel,CamGuard so lower engine reserve, no grass runways so less chance of damage, flaps on T.O. and landings so less stress on airframe, subscriptions all current so safer and no FAA issue, Plexus on windscreen for better visability, retract flaps right after touchdown so tires & brakes wear longer...the list is endless and variable per pilot. Rusults in about $18,000-22,000 annually.....BUT the wife only knows half the story.

 

[aaronk25]

I am in the Los Angeles area so a hangar is not only extremely expensive, but there are also waiting lists. That's why I looked at the tie down option.

I've already gotten a quote for the insurance and tie down, the annual inspection is the thing that I don't know what to expect with. I was hoping to get an idea on average yearly costs for maintenance so I could better calculate my options. I know the fuel burn is around 10 GPH so that's easy to calculate into things.

If the annual runs around $2500 that would put my yearly fixed costs around $6000, but if they tend to be significantly higher than that I'd love to know. I am thinking that my best option is likely a partnership as I will be flying less than 50 hours a year. At that number of hours I'll be getting my hourly rate killed by the fixed costs.

I think your first year or 2 will be alot higher than that. I can say with almost complete certainty that the Maintence bill will be more taking care of catch up maint. Also at 50 hours a year it really isn't enough flying to keep the engine happy. Sounds like a partnership might be the best bet.

[Smiles201]

Where you live aren't there flying clubs which have nice planes to rent? Just another option. I was in a partnership with two others and it worked out great. As long as everyone can afford it and is like minded as far as maintenance and scheduling.

[FloridaMan]

My operating costs for my M20F model are < $100/hr including hangar, GPS subscriptions, insurance, et cetera. I'd recommend calling Falcon insurance. My first year insurance with only 10 hours of retract time and an instrument rating was only around $1800. 

[moodychief]

You can't put a price tag on the memories you make with a Mooney!!!!

[Skywarrior]

Yeah, $20,000 per year is a good estimate...

 

The fuel is what balloons that number...

[bnicolette]

Once you have your airplane and you finally get the maintenance under control (the airplane to a level of airworthiness you feel comfortable with) then the costs are quite reasonable. I could take a guess at a usual $2000-3000 annual with another $2K during the year for incidentals. However there is always something else you want to do to "your" airplane. Its kinda like your home. The projects are NEVER done!!! Im still working on that first part..............well thats what i tell the wife. "darling we wont be spending nearly as much just as soon as we do this one last thing"

[Bob_Belville]

Certain costs are hard to predict, component failure and other unscheduled maintenance, E.g.

Other costs are easy to list:

 

Fixed annual costs: (My E, insured for $100,000 hull, hangered @ MRN)

Annual inspection                        $900.

Hanger                                      $3000.

Insurance                                  $1230.

Garmin/Jepp/XM/other                $1500.

Total annual (minimum?)             $6630.

ELT battery, IFR cert, etc                  ?

 

Hourly: mostly fuel @ 10g/h       $55-$65 per hour

Oil, filter, misc supplies            < $5 /hr.

 

 

Not included, depreciation, engine pro rata

 

But the right way to think about it, IMNSHO, is not to calculate a total hourly cost. The $6 grand is the price of admission. The operating cost is less than $70. Make your fly/drive/fly commercial/stay home decisions using that number.  

[carusoam]

amateur's rules for affordability of a Mooney.

(1) pay off all the bills at the end of the month.

(2) pay the wife's bills as well, no questions asked....

If you can do this, you can afford a Mooney.

Real financial challenges....

(1) if your housing is not paid off, you may find yourself short on cash....

(2) if your kids are still in day care, you may find yourself short on cash....

(3) if your kids are on their way to a very expensive college, you may find yourself short on cash...

I bought my first M20C just before the daycare expenses started....

If you can get paid OT, do it...

Know what you are going to do if you get unemployed or sick or the plane has a financial failure.

For fun, find the thread titled "what do you do for work". Or something like that, read it and fill one in...

Flying fast is an affordable addiction, get ready for it!

Best regards,

-a-

[gregwatts]

If you don't plan to fly more than 50 hours per year....it may be cheaper to rent!

There is a value of having your own plane......and knowing the maintenance is being done.

I would advise to think long and hard about entering a partnership......some work.......many don't!

 

 

If you can afford it........buy an airplane! I still think it's cheaper than a wife!